Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 30-05-2018, 08:41
darkanddivine's Avatar
darkanddivine darkanddivine is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wolfland
Posts: 6,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBazB View Post
Listening to it now. It's definitely just a remix and edit of the original version, with additional strings and theremin. No re-recording of drums, guitars, bass or vocals. I like having it as an alternative, but it would have been better as a full-length version, and no theremin! That theremin part has polluted my brain so much that I'm convinced I can hear it buried in the original mix now!
I think the "goal" if you will of this remix was to get a version that somewhat represents the version the guys do live. Although in that scenario the theramin makes literally less than zero sense - and it is fucking horrible as you say. And yes, the vocals and bass are the same - but {engage pedant mode} I'm certain there are changes/additions to the guitars and drums. I know, I know - sacrilege right?! But hear me out.

OK; so the guitars... Clearly the lead guitar is still exactly the same, it'd be mad to re-do that part, since it's so recognisable and distinctive. But there are extra layers in this mix not present on the GT version. The original features a fairly clean rhythm that plays the chords without any embellishments, and it's also pretty buried in the mix. But check out the little flicks on the rhythm guitar at 2:01 and 2:27 in the FD version. They aren't there on GT (not to my ears at least.) And again, after the "all we want from you...." part ends, there's another more distorted rhythm guitar at 3:08. So that bit is re-recorded or a track that was ditched at the time. But it sounds suspiciously like JDB circa 2002 to me.

On the drums, there is clearly a difference here. It might be that they used the same software that they used to programme the drums on GT, but just changed the sounds. But they sound like live drums, not a software track. For a start there are no 16th hi-hat sounds on the original chorus, but they are definitely there on the FD version, and the kick drum sounds very different too. Again, my suspicion here is that Sean recorded the drums ala live but copied the original track as best he could. Again, the remaining part is the mechanical snare (as that is also distinctive) but perhaps with Sean's snare sound patched over it.

Go back and listen again. You'll see what I mean. {disengage pedant mode}

Remember this was all done at a time of retrospective activity for the band. They went back and re-recorded aspects of Judge Yrself (if reports are to be believed) so perhaps Motorcycle was part of that session?

Either way, this is another of those fun little mysteries attached to the band.
__________________
“I have known many sorrows, most of which never happened.” Mark Twain

Last edited by darkanddivine; 30-05-2018 at 08:45.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 30-05-2018, 09:10
Europa Gluten Free's Avatar
Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,451
Guys, it's shit. Let's move on.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 30-05-2018, 12:17
Porco's Avatar
Porco Porco is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
The theremin is hideous but i do love it on the stealth sonic orchestra remix of the everlasting.
I agree the theremin works much better on that remix of The Everlasting.

And also on Rewind the Film’s instrumental Manorbier. I like the theremin as an instrument very much, but it’s a very specific-sounding thing, if you take my meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkanddivine View Post
I think the "goal" if you will of this remix was to get a version that somewhat represents the version the guys do live. Although in that scenario the theramin makes literally less than zero sense - and it is fucking horrible as you say. And yes, the vocals and bass are the same - but {engage pedant mode} I'm certain there are changes/additions to the guitars and drums. I know, I know - sacrilege right?! But hear me out.

OK; so the guitars... [....]
(snip)

That is some detailed analysis! Love it!
__________________
'Those Manics are great mun ent'it!' | Miyazaki-San, Arigato | POPCORN!


| PorcoTunes: SC=fdporco YT=PorcoForever |
---“...but the pigs are getting into our garden, and just digging holes, looking for truffles or something…"---
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 30-05-2018, 19:37
SBazB SBazB is offline
Born to end
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkanddivine View Post
The original features a fairly clean rhythm that plays the chords without any embellishments, and it's also pretty buried in the mix. But check out the little flicks on the rhythm guitar at 2:01 and 2:27 in the FD version. They aren't there on GT (not to my ears at least.) And again, after the "all we want from you...." part ends, there's another more distorted rhythm guitar at 3:08. So that bit is re-recorded or a track that was ditched at the time. But it sounds suspiciously like JDB circa 2002 to me.
Ok, good spot. Listening more carefully, I can hear the extra guitar track you mention, and I think I agree that it's a new addition as it sounds more like JDB circa 2002/3, than 1991/2. I stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkanddivine View Post
On the drums, there is clearly a difference here. It might be that they used the same software that they used to programme the drums on GT, but just changed the sounds. But they sound like live drums, not a software track. For a start there are no 16th hi-hat sounds on the original chorus, but they are definitely there on the FD version, and the kick drum sounds very different too. Again, my suspicion here is that Sean recorded the drums ala live but copied the original track as best he could. Again, the remaining part is the mechanical snare (as that is also distinctive) but perhaps with Sean's snare sound patched over it.
I don't think this is as clear-cut as you say. Whilst it's true that Sean could have taken the time to re-record the drums precisely, I think the note velocities are just too similar to the original for it to be a new recording. More likely that the MIDI notes from the original drum programming have just been assigned to updated and more realistic drum samples. You specifically mention the 16ths in the chorus. On the original, this pattern is there, but it's assigned to a tambourine sound. In the remix, it's lower in volume and might have been changed to a hi-hat sound, but to my ears, it's still a tambourine sound. It's difficult to be sure, as I'm not listening to a lossless file, and the mp3 compression artifacts mess up the clarity of these little details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
Guys, it's shit. Let's move on.
I know it all seems very pedantic. We all moved on successfully 15 years ago, but it's still a fun discussion for those of us interested in the intricacies of music production and performance

Last edited by SBazB; 30-05-2018 at 19:40. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-04-2021, 21:44
fireplayer fireplayer is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
sorry to reawake a long dead thread, but is there by chance a flac floating around of this. unlike most here I really love this version…
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-04-2021, 15:35
LA ex's Avatar
LA ex LA ex is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,563
It's on Youtube, so you may be able to rip the audio from it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebEncsoCg6M
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-04-2021, 07:19
theplague's Avatar
theplague theplague is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Age: 45
Posts: 346
Has it been clarified which release this version exists on?
__________________
Let's all share our dreams - Let's share everything under a Communist Moon
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-04-2021, 10:43
fireplayer fireplayer is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
i know that, but that is not exactly Flac quality… I had it before as it was uploaded a million years ago. But just recently had a computer crash so lost a lot. Same w the GT promo w the Streetcar intro of LBN…

also is the *** section gone or did I lose access to it? haven't been on here for a while and maybe my post count was reset? NVM saw it takes 100 posts nowadays


Quote:
Originally Posted by LA ex View Post
It's on Youtube, so you may be able to rip the audio from it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebEncsoCg6M

Last edited by fireplayer; 10-04-2021 at 11:11. Reason: saw rule change.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-04-2021, 10:56
fireplayer fireplayer is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
https://www.discogs.com/Manic-Street...elease/8167577

thats the only version I know that has it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theplague View Post
Has it been clarified which release this version exists on?
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-04-2021, 11:10
fireplayer fireplayer is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
is there a lossless section on *** nowadays? also why is that censored?
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-04-2021, 11:13
fireplayer fireplayer is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
Also nice to see you in a non-kent forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by theplague View Post
Has it been clarified which release this version exists on?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-04-2021, 16:07
theplague's Avatar
theplague theplague is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sweden
Age: 45
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireplayer View Post
https://www.discogs.com/Manic-Street...elease/8167577

thats the only version I know that has it.
That’s Japanese, the European version with the same song lengths has it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireplayer View Post
Also nice to see you in a non-kent forum
Haha cool
Who were you at the Kent forum?
__________________
Let's all share our dreams - Let's share everything under a Communist Moon
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-04-2021, 18:40
Glyn Glyn is online now
Freed from the century
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by theplague View Post
That’s Japanese, the European version with the same song lengths has it too?
It was released in Europe as the bside on a radio promo for Forever Delayed to promote Lipstick Traces. As suggested above I suspect it was done at the same time that Judge Yrself and Take the Skinheads Bowling were reworked.

Still annoyed that I didn't 'lift it' from our student radio station when I had the chance!

Last edited by Glyn; 10-04-2021 at 18:44.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-04-2021, 20:55
fireplayer fireplayer is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
same name. but I rule the biggest kent group on fb now lol.

is there a european one w the same length? mustve missed that one…
Quote:
Originally Posted by theplague View Post
That’s Japanese, the European version with the same song lengths has it too?


Haha cool
Who were you at the Kent forum?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-04-2021, 20:56
fireplayer fireplayer is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 67
Forever delayed as a promo single? can you link it on discogs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glyn View Post
It was released in Europe as the bside on a radio promo for Forever Delayed to promote Lipstick Traces. As suggested above I suspect it was done at the same time that Judge Yrself and Take the Skinheads Bowling were reworked.

Still annoyed that I didn't 'lift it' from our student radio station when I had the chance!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.