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  #1  
Old 26-02-2019, 22:19
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Question about Nobody Loved You

So, I was watching the "Truth and Memory" doc on YouTube and it contained a beautiful accoustic rendition of "Nobody Loved You". However, it must have been an earlier, unedited, version of the song and contained a few lines that were not on the album track.

It went like this:

"Creepy creepy, dusty dusty.
What's your poison, what's your honey?
But now is now and never is never,
Winter flowers, did you ever forgive her?

Nobody loved you - but at least your (sic) free.
Nobody loved you - loved you like me.
Your uknown and gone - but at least you belong."

(Pardon the "your" and "you're" errors, I transcribed from Nick's handwritten lyric sheet and it's his mistake, not mine).

Anyway, given the song's subject matter (Richey) what do you make of the lines that were cut from it? I find the "creepy, creepy; dusty, dusty" line strangely disturbing. And what was meant by "your unknown and gone"? I'm assuming Nick made a grammatical error with the "your" in that line, because it doesn't make sense otherwise. If it should be "you're unknown and gone" that is, once more, quite a chilling line.

Do you think these lines were random and unimportant, like placeholder lyrics, until Nick could think of something better?

Another thing I've always wondered, and it concerns a line that was in the final version of the song, who is the woman who needs forgiveness and whatever for?

I know it's entirely possible that I'm overthinking this far too much. But I was curious as to what everyone else's thoughts are (if you have any).

Last edited by Velocitygirl; 26-02-2019 at 23:50.
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Old 26-02-2019, 22:49
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Dac X Lee Dac X Lee is offline
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All interesting questions.
The "did you ever forgive her", to me always felt like Nicky simply referred to Richey in feminine pronouns because, well, for obvious reasons. And it wouldn't be the only time he did that either, wasn't Tsunami about Nicky and Richey by making the parallel with the twin sisters as the motif of the song?

Hooooowever....
Now that we have that posting about that infamous book about Richey, which mentions that mysterious Vivian, and, as it was initially presumed Jo was this "girlfriend he broke up with".... Hmmm.... Good conspiracy material.

Edit (text added)
Or maybe the guilt is what Nicky feels in regards to his friendship with Richey. Maybe he feels like he didn't do enough to help Richey overcome his health problems, maybe he feels guilty for not being able to catch him at the moment of that unfortunate day. So maybe the feminine is Nicky addressing himself and asking himself "Will I ever be able to forgive myself?"
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Last edited by Dac X Lee; 27-02-2019 at 03:32.
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Old 26-02-2019, 23:24
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Originally Posted by Dac X Lee View Post
All interesting questions.
The "did you ever forgive her", to me always felt like Nicky simply referred to Richey in feminine pronouns because, well, for obvious reasons. And it wouldn't be the only time he did that either, wasn't Tsunami about Nicky and Richey by making the parallel with the twin sisters as the motif of the song?
TBH, I always thought that Tsunami was straight up about the twin sisters with no relation to Nick and Richey.
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Old 27-02-2019, 03:34
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Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
TBH, I always thought that Tsunami was straight up about the twin sisters with no relation to Nick and Richey.
Possibly. I just reported on what I read around the internet. But then, it's all about personal opinions, rather than official declarations from the band. And, especially for Truth, people somehow assume it's all about the band members.
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Old 27-02-2019, 05:33
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Originally Posted by Dac X Lee View Post
The "did you ever forgive her", to me always felt like Nicky simply referred to Richey in feminine pronouns because, well, for obvious reasons.
Why would Nicky refer to Richey by feminine pronouns? What are the obvious reasons? Remember, we’re talking about the 90s where gender neutrality and Queerism were not really the norm.
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Old 27-02-2019, 06:58
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I just assumed that the creepy dusty line was due to James forgetting the lyrics and having a brain fart...
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Old 27-02-2019, 09:17
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
Why would Nicky refer to Richey by feminine pronouns? What are the obvious reasons? Remember, we’re talking about the 90s where gender neutrality and Queerism were not really the norm.
Yeah, but we're also talking about artists who were not afraid to publicly embrace their masculine femininity, as this was one of the concepts in the earliest stages of their career. Hence, Nicky was also famous for wearing skirts and dresses. Also, we're talking about artists who were no strangers to controversy, so I don't see any problems with it.

Referring to a male in female grammatical forms can have metaphoric meaning as well.
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Old 27-02-2019, 10:51
tomd2103 tomd2103 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dac X Lee View Post
Yeah, but we're also talking about artists who were not afraid to publicly embrace their masculine femininity, as this was one of the concepts in the earliest stages of their career. Hence, Nicky was also famous for wearing skirts and dresses. Also, we're talking about artists who were no strangers to controversy, so I don't see any problems with it.

Referring to a male in female grammatical forms can have metaphoric meaning as well.
The 'her' might not relate to a person of course, just as the 'She' in 'She is Suffering' doesn't.

I can see why Nobody Loved You could have been a bit hurtful to some if Richey is the perceived subject, especially his family who quite clearly did love him. I remember an interview with James when he said that Richey had never really had a proper girlfriend and that might have been explained some of his issues. Maybe it was meant in that context or even as a bit of a dig at fans who they felt were 'claiming' Richey to some extent.

Either way, I can see why they may no longer be comfortable with the song, even though I think it is one of the best on the album.
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Old 27-02-2019, 14:56
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I always interpreted Nobody Loved You in the sense that, from Richey's perspective, he possibly felt that nobody loved him - depression can certainly make you feel that way - but the irony in the song is that it's written by someone who loved him very much. Hence the emotional punch when suddenly "nobody loved you" is followed by "like me". If that makes sense!
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Old 27-02-2019, 16:17
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Originally Posted by tomd2103 View Post

I can see why Nobody Loved You could have been a bit hurtful to some if Richey is the perceived subject, especially his family who quite clearly did love him. I remember an interview with James when he said that Richey had never really had a proper girlfriend and that might have been explained some of his issues. Maybe it was meant in that context or even as a bit of a dig at fans who they felt were 'claiming' Richey to some extent.

TBF, Nicky has said before that Richey was always saying no one loved him. The title's just come from there, because a great many people loved him.
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:56
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There was that interview where Richey says something about either no one loves him or he want to find someone who will and Nicky responds "I love you Rich" or something like that.
Had a wee hunt for the interview but couldn't find. Saw it on youtibe in the past t hough.
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:24
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Originally Posted by Peculiar View Post
Had a wee hunt for the interview but couldn't find. Saw it on youtibe in the past t hough.
It's this one: https://youtu.be/8s0ny0D8DhQ
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Old 04-03-2019, 19:27
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Yeah although it sounds more like they're taking the piss than I remembered.
Didn't realise it was as far back as 91.
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2019, 19:51
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Cute interview. The ending is pure gold, Nicky is super too.
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  #15  
Old 26-03-2019, 08:45
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Did you ever forgive her? I've always wondered who and what Nicky is referring to here. However, I didn't know that Richey proposed to Jo not long before going missing, but she said no and they broke up. So this is where I'm at right now. Will never know though
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