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  #1  
Old 21-06-2018, 21:09
Phil C Phil C is offline
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Reissue Revisionism

So, last year the Manics re-issued Send Away The Tigers but changed the track-listing, putting 'Welcome To The Dead Zone' on in place of 'Underdogs'. While I know some people feel that any retrospective changes are a mistake, I personally welcomed the change because 'Dead Zone' was a song that deserved its place on the album, and 'Underdogs' was...well...'Underdogs'. So, I don't think it was a controversial a move as it could have been. Had it been put on in place of, say, 'Imperial Bodybags' I would have had a very different reaction.

Later this year we're expecting a 'This Is My Truth' re-issue. Now, both the band the majority of fans have been saying for 20 years that 'Prologue To History' should have been included on that album - and I would agree. But I feel a little more uneasy about changes to 'Truth' than to 'Tigers'. I think it's because 'Truth', while musically diverse, has a largely coherent tone, and 'Prologue' doesn't fit it. On the other hand, however much I love 'Truth' as it was released (and I do), I think it had such a strong set of b-sides that almost any one of them could have a case for inclusion.

So, where should revisionism stop? Should 'Prologue' be added to 'Truth', and if so, in place of what? Or should it just be added as a 14th track, and if so, where? Should other changes be considered?
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Old 21-06-2018, 23:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil C View Post

Later this year we're expecting a 'This Is My Truth' re-issue. Now, both the band the majority of fans have been saying for 20 years that 'Prologue To History' should have been included on that album - and I would agree. But I feel a little more uneasy about changes to 'Truth' than to 'Tigers'. I think it's because 'Truth', while musically diverse, has a largely coherent tone, and 'Prologue' doesn't fit it.
That captures my feelings on TIMT. It's an album that is more than a set of an individual songs. Take a piece out and the flow might completely stop. I do wonder why the band have not engaged Hedges since. Whenever they try to recapture that EMG/TIMT they are effectively ignoring the one man who was able to give those albums their aura and rich production.

Prologue would sound more at home on know your enemy I think. Where TIMT takes its time setting up the soundscapes, the songs on KYE are immediate and pointed.
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Old 22-06-2018, 08:04
Glyn Glyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil C View Post
Should 'Prologue' be added to 'Truth', and if so, in place of what? Or should it just be added as a 14th track, and if so, where? Should other changes be considered?
It just feels rather pointless with reissues to be honest as surely the idea is that they contain all the tracks from that era anyway. All that the SATT revision achieved really was being incomplete by leaving out Underdogs.

If it was being added just to the album itself though my vote would be as a hidden first track like the super furries did with Citizens Band on Guerilla. Doesn't disrupt the album flow then and fits in neatly with the word 'prologue'
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Old 22-06-2018, 09:43
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Everyone makes their own tracklistings anyway. I certainly didn’t listen to RIF as they intended more than once. Same with Futurology. That album was practically released as a shuffle playlist.

They’re rightly embarrassed by and should be ashamed of Underdogs. It went beyond being a bad song.

There are songs on TIMTTMY that aren’t as strong as the b-sides but nothing that needs to be whitewashed from their catalogue.
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Old 22-06-2018, 13:52
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I don't think revisionism is the right answer for TIMT, particularly not if it entails shoehorning Prologue To History into the tracklisting. Prologue's a good song, and, on its own, it's definitely better than some of the songs on the album. TIMT isn't the sort of album that'd benefit from having songs that are just good added in, though. It's a single, cohesive piece, like a movie, not a ramshackle collection of best-bits, like a highlight reel. It's an album built from songs which are both good, and, crucially, relevant to its theme.

Where I would like to see Prologue included, however, is in a release of TIMT Draft #1. Word has it that the album was originally intended to be a much rougher and more aggressive record (one presumably much more akin to Know Your Enemy), and based on what we've heard about the original versions of songs like Tsunami and Tolerate, Prologue sounds like it may be an orphan from those sessions. Most of the b-sides from the TIMT era sound like they came from the album that could have been, rather than the one which was.

Maybe Disc 2 of the re-release could look like some variant of this -

1. Prologue To History
2. Montana/Autumn/78
3. Black Holes For The Young
4. Socialist Serenade
5. Buildings For Dead People
6. Tsunami (original)
7. Tolerate (original)
8. You Stole The Sun From My Heart (original)
9. Something else off TIMT in its original form
10. Something unreleased
11. Something reworked for a later album (Found That Soul would be my bet)
12. Some rough demo which never made it into a full song
13. SYMM (which I think is perfectly abrasive and somber enough to fit as the closing track for either version of the album)

And maybe that could be the version of TIMT (if it can still be called that...) which Prologue fits into, and works as part of.

Last little thought here, but maybe there's a connection with the Kubler-Ross 5 Stages Of Grief theory being played out. Maybe the TIMT we have is the Stage 4 - Depression version of the album. Maybe Disc 2 could be the unfinished Stage 2 - Anger version of it, with the different tracklist (including the likes of Prologue, Montana, and Black Holes, all of which are album-grade songs) and more aggressive styling. It'll be interesting to see what we get.
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Old 22-06-2018, 14:36
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Can they please rename the album This, My New Truth? ‘Cos when I read ‘TIMT’ I often think ‘Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles’ for some reason, so that would make it official.
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Old 22-06-2018, 15:17
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I don't really like the change myself. I actually like Underdogs apart from the 'people like you need to fuck people like me' line, which is a tad icky. So I stick to the original tracklisting when I listen to SATT. I actually prefer Underdogs to YLAINE - if I'm going to skip a song on the album it's that one!

So it's a No to revisionism from me, though the band will do what they want to do, of course. It's not a big deal as it's not like the original goes away.
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Old 22-06-2018, 15:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
11. Something reworked for a later album (Found That Soul would be my bet)
Was Found that Soul originally written during the TIMT era, or are you just speculating? I'd never heard that before.

What other songs were written in one era and then released in another?
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Old 22-06-2018, 16:11
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Originally Posted by LA ex View Post
Was Found that Soul originally written during the TIMT era, or are you just speculating? I'd never heard that before.

What other songs were written in one era and then released in another?

The following three were rehearsed or road tested during the last few dates of the EMG tour:
Prologue
Born a Girl
Ready for Drowning
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Old 22-06-2018, 17:12
Phil C Phil C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glyn View Post
It just feels rather pointless with reissues to be honest as surely the idea is that they contain all the tracks from that era anyway. All that the SATT revision achieved really was being incomplete by leaving out Underdogs.

If it was being added just to the album itself though my vote would be as a hidden first track like the super furries did with Citizens Band on Guerilla. Doesn't disrupt the album flow then and fits in neatly with the word 'prologue'
As someone who listens to the album on vinyl, there was a point to the swap because it means listening to the album start to finish is a better experience, plus 'Dead Zone' sounds dreamy on record.

Unfortunately not all CD players can cope with songs hidden that way - there's a hidden John Cale track I can't access because I can't get the player to rewind the first track. Personally I *hate* hidden tracks as I have to faff about editing the mp3 files so I can listen to them on my phone without fast-forwarding through 15 minutes of silence. If you *must* hide a song, just do what Springsteen did and add an uncredited track on the end of the CD.
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Old 22-06-2018, 19:13
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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Personally I hate SYMM as the end of the album, but plenty of people will disagree with me.
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Old 22-06-2018, 20:59
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
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Take the vocals off the verse of SYMM and I'd be interested in hearing it. A completely instrumental version could be good too, if anyone's reading who can make the dream real.
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Old 22-06-2018, 21:46
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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Take the vocals off the verse of SYMM and I'd be interested in hearing it. A completely instrumental version could be good too, if anyone's reading who can make the dream real.

Actually, yes, that’d be good. The lyrics are just excruciating!
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Old 22-06-2018, 22:04
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Quote:
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Take the vocals off the verse of SYMM and I'd be interested in hearing it. A completely instrumental version could be good too, if anyone's reading who can make the dream real.
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Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Actually, yes, that’d be good. The lyrics are just excruciating!
Goes there. And the opening to Liverpool Revisited is as terrible. Thank you for trying more than what I've done but yeesh!
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Old 23-06-2018, 01:49
tomd2103 tomd2103 is offline
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Personally I hate SYMM as the end of the album, but plenty of people will disagree with me.
Not me. Nobody Loved You would have been fine as the final track.
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