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  #16  
Old 23-06-2018, 07:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd2103 View Post
Not me. Nobody Loved You would have been fine as the final track.
I agree with this too. I usually treat Nobody Loved You as the final track when I listen to the album. SYMM is, to me, the secret bonus track I never bother to listen to!
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  #17  
Old 23-06-2018, 08:03
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I love SYMM. Some of JDB's finest guitar work, brilliant production, and most of the lyric is fine, I think that one duff line makes people too critical of the rest. And ultimately, the statement in the chorus was a support to the families and campaigners for justice for the families of Hillsborough. Removing it would be a completely different matter to a 3-minute straight forward rock song like Underdogs, I think.
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  #18  
Old 23-06-2018, 08:17
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I love SYMM too. There is no "duff line" IMHO.
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  #19  
Old 23-06-2018, 08:22
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I really dont understand why SYMM gets shat on so much.
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  #20  
Old 23-06-2018, 08:43
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Because there's no Nicky Wire track on the album for people to shit on? (If the Survivor results are anything to go by)

I think the song is gorgeous but maybe a bit sluggish which fits with the rest of the album.
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  #21  
Old 23-06-2018, 09:38
Phil C Phil C is offline
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Because there's no Nicky Wire track on the album for people to shit on? (If the Survivor results are anything to go by)

I think the song is gorgeous but maybe a bit sluggish which fits with the rest of the album.
I like most of the tracks which Nick sings - indeed, some are among my favourites (As Holy As The Soil, The Left Behind, The Future Has Been Here 4-Ever, Dying Breeds, Ballad Of The Bangkok Novotel).
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  #22  
Old 23-06-2018, 11:09
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The solo at the end of SYMM is my highlight of the album. It's a far from perfect song but I'd argue that at least it's interesting unlike some other tracks on the album that either never quite get going or far outstay their welcome
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  #23  
Old 23-06-2018, 12:11
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Originally Posted by Glyn View Post
The solo at the end of SYMM is my highlight of the album. It's a far from perfect song but I'd argue that at least it's interesting unlike some other tracks on the album that either never quite get going or far outstay their welcome
Agree - Im not working, for instance is a song i wouldnt lose too much sleep over if it was dropped from the tracklisting.
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  #24  
Old 23-06-2018, 12:12
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SYMM’s lyrics stick out less each time they put out a new batch of songs.

You could make a compilation of material from the last 20 years entitled ‘I Had Nothing To Write That Day But Jimbo Was Pressuring Me’.
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  #25  
Old 23-06-2018, 13:11
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I like the idea of a record standing as it was conceived. The beauty of reissues is you can have whatever you want - nothing stops us from reworking a track listing ourselves at any point. But particularly when these records have been with us for so long I don’t like the idea of changing them. I liked underdogs, and I liked it where it was on the album. Very interesting to see how the band feels about their last work though.
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  #26  
Old 23-06-2018, 16:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post
Take the vocals off the verse of SYMM and I'd be interested in hearing it. A completely instrumental version could be good too, if anyone's reading who can make the dream real.
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Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Actually, yes, that’d be good. The lyrics are just excruciating!
Yes. Yes they are
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  #27  
Old 24-06-2018, 14:11
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I remember there was quite a bit of hype surrounding SYMM prior to its release. Someone definitely wrote into the NME and said they were looking forward to the track as it was going to be a return to The Holy Bible sound. Quite an assumption to make based on the original title.

So why shorten it from South Yorkshire Mass Murderer? I know some have suggested its for legal reasons, but who in particular would be able to sue? I think the real reason its an acronym though was the record label not wanting to scare off potential buyers as the Manics were so massive at the time and didn't want it printed on the back cover, plus for reasons of getting stocked in Tesco etc. Or have the band ever gone on the record to say why they shortened the title? Lyrically the song is a massive cop-out so why stop there, I guess...
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  #28  
Old 24-06-2018, 17:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post
I remember there was quite a bit of hype surrounding SYMM prior to its release. Someone definitely wrote into the NME and said they were looking forward to the track as it was going to be a return to The Holy Bible sound. Quite an assumption to make based on the original title.

So why shorten it from South Yorkshire Mass Murderer? I know some have suggested its for legal reasons, but who in particular would be able to sue? I think the real reason its an acronym though was the record label not wanting to scare off potential buyers as the Manics were so massive at the time and didn't want it printed on the back cover, plus for reasons of getting stocked in Tesco etc. Or have the band ever gone on the record to say why they shortened the title? Lyrically the song is a massive cop-out so why stop there, I guess...
The band said the title was always 'SYMM'. They were thinking of the New Order track 'ICB' IIRC.
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  #29  
Old 25-06-2018, 01:00
tomd2103 tomd2103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil C View Post
I love SYMM. Some of JDB's finest guitar work, brilliant production, and most of the lyric is fine, I think that one duff line makes people too critical of the rest. And ultimately, the statement in the chorus was a support to the families and campaigners for justice for the families of Hillsborough. Removing it would be a completely different matter to a 3-minute straight forward rock song like Underdogs, I think.
I don't mind the song itself, it's just that it doesn't really sit well as a closing song for me, just as Myaakovsky, The Left Behind and William's Last Words don't. The subject of the song is a tough one although I think the victories the families have won in recent years and sense of the hope that has brought have given a new angle to the terrible story. Like others have said, maybe the song would have just been better left as an instrumental with just the chorus sung or even just the "how can you sleep at night" line.

As for changing the track listing in reissues, I don't think it really worked for Send Away the Tigers. I had read interviews well before the reissue where they had said that they wished they had replaced Underdogs with Welcome to the Dead Zone, so it was obviously something that had been nagging away at them. Can't recall them making those kind of comments about songs on other albums.

Last edited by tomd2103; 25-06-2018 at 01:06.
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  #30  
Old 25-06-2018, 01:02
tomd2103 tomd2103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post
I remember there was quite a bit of hype surrounding SYMM prior to its release. Someone definitely wrote into the NME and said they were looking forward to the track as it was going to be a return to The Holy Bible sound. Quite an assumption to make based on the original title.
I recall hearing an interview somewhere where JDB admitted he had thought it would be a good first single for the album!!
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