Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #166  
Old 11-09-2020, 17:34
chieftan mews chieftan mews is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brighton
Age: 31
Posts: 168
Thank you for all the kind words on both the Sheen episode and the SATT episode!
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 13-09-2020, 07:01
sitdown1985's Avatar
sitdown1985 sitdown1985 is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South England
Age: 35
Posts: 253
I remember the NME "Big Gig" awards, and getting there to see the end of Bloc Party's set, Kaiser Chiefs and then the Manics. I'd forgotten until Adam pointed out that half the arena did leave after Kaiser Chiefs, but I think that had to do with the (what seemed like 10-minute long) intro that consisted of a marching band playing bagpipes. I bet there were a few people who literally thought that was the next act.
__________________
MAЯC
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 13-09-2020, 08:26
hummingbird's Avatar
hummingbird hummingbird is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in a quiet corner
Posts: 18,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by sitdown1985 View Post
I remember the NME "Big Gig" awards, and getting there to see the end of Bloc Party's set, Kaiser Chiefs and then the Manics. I'd forgotten until Adam pointed out that half the arena did leave after Kaiser Chiefs, but I think that had to do with the (what seemed like 10-minute long) intro that consisted of a marching band playing bagpipes. I bet there were a few people who literally thought that was the next act.
That and starting with masses. Number 1 single yeah but few know it. ME should've been the opener followed by 3 or 4 crowd pleasers in quick succession.

I did think booking the biggest band in the country at the time as support was fairly stupid, of course the place was going to fill up with Kaiser chief fans. The following year was the cure I think ...can't remember all the acts but Franz Ferdinand was before the cure. Not so huge.
__________________
IS IT MANICS O'CLOCK YET?
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 22-09-2020, 21:32
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ...my fathers can have it.
Posts: 5,539
I kinda like bounced off journal when it came out, maybe i was expecting something that hewed a lot closer to the holy bible than it did. I think also the editing of richey's words to fit them into the music left a bit of a sour taste compared to how dense the bible is where they'd fit the music into the words. I hated william's last words for it being edited to imply meaning completely different to the original typed prose but i came to accept that he left these words for them to turn into songs and if his close friend achieved some catharsis doing this then so be it. Then a few years later it really clicked for me and i wouldn't hesitate to put it towards the top of my favourites so lucas needs to give both albums some time then they'll flower for him like they have for us (though i doubt it).

So i don't really see this as holy bible v2.0, it's certainly a spiritual successor but there's not as much bleakness on here as that granite obelisk of an album. The songs are of a troubled mind sure but there's so much dark humour, it reads to me like a version of richey having exorcised his demons through holy bible and coming out the other side and seeing the morbid humour in the people he is surrounded by while recovering. I can't honestly say i'm reading the last words of someone who is planning something drastic, the holy bible gives me that impression but not this.

I did really admire their almost low key approach to promoting this with no singles and playing the album in full was absolutely the way to go (wish they'd played bag lady) even though i got the impression that nicky wasn't entirely happy, the twice i saw it played lived he was very subdued during the first half. Which ya can understand but it was great being a fan because it did feel a bit like they were a four-piece again and not including any tracks in subsequent gigs is appropriate i think despite how much i would have enjoyed hearing them.

Glad you brought up nicky saying he wanted to burn the album after mastering it and james telling him to fuck right off after all the work he put into it, i distinctly remember that but not sure if it was in print or on camera while being interviewed.

Good shout out to the girl from tiger bay by simon, it's such a fantastic track and so very manics slipping in a bit of situationist international. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Y9bVGtW0Q
__________________
Please, he prayed, now -
A gray disk, the colour of Chiba sky.
Now -
Disk beginning to rotate, faster, becoming a sphere of paler gray. Expanding -
And flowed, flowered for him, fluid neon origami trick, the unfolding of his distanceless home, his country, transparent 3D chessboard extending to infinity.
Inner eye opening to the stepped scarlet pyramid of the Eastern Seaboard Fission Authority burning beyond the green cubes of Mitsubishi Bank of America,
and high and very far away he saw the spiral arms of military systems, forever beyond his reach.
And somewhere he was laughing, in a white-painted loft, distant fingers caressing the deck, tears of release streaking his face.

Last edited by Tim; 22-09-2020 at 23:03.
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 22-09-2020, 23:13
hummingbird's Avatar
hummingbird hummingbird is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in a quiet corner
Posts: 18,968
Wasn't Nicky touring with a slipped disc for the JFPL tour? Might explain being subdued. One date he was so bad he had to sit down and stop playing. Brave boy to keep going. Regardless they were great gigs

I think this was the tour I braved going down the front for the first time. Survived
__________________
IS IT MANICS O'CLOCK YET?

Last edited by hummingbird; 23-09-2020 at 07:16.
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 23-09-2020, 09:39
Europa Gluten Free's Avatar
Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,153
JFPL was maybe my last big Manics era. Remember listening to the Zane Lowe first play of Peeled Apples on YouTube about a hundred times.

Travelled far for the gig and waited for the band afterwards. Didn't enjoy meeting them at all. Too weird. But I did have a random chat with Sean on the bus waiting to take them to the hotel. That was cool. But I don't really remember any of it.

Gig was fantastic. Album in full was amazing. The hits section was a bit blah. I think Sorrow 16 was the curio? Blah.

Good times. Then Postcards came out and it all went a bit shit.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 23-09-2020, 10:04
Routine Builder's Avatar
Routine Builder Routine Builder is offline
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingbird View Post
Wasn't Nicky touring with a slipped disc for the JFPL tour? Might explain being subdued. One date he was so bad he had to sit down and stop playing. Brave boy to keep going. Regardless they were great gigs

I think this was the tour I braved going down the front for the first time. Survived
I think the first tour was subdued because Nicky was visibly in pain and the 2nd half was much better becuase he was out of his mind on painkillers .

Have to say, the show I did see, James really stepped up much more than usual (which is a lot!) and he really earned my respect for him as a front man. There are very few performers who could take on a difficult album with an ailing band member and give 150%.

I think this was a turning point for audiences though, this was when I began to notice the crowds being older and more worried about spilling their drinks than enjoying the music.
__________________


Stand back, I have political powers!
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 23-09-2020, 12:53
starfucker starfucker is offline
Knowlede Is Power
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
I kinda like bounced off journal when it came out, maybe i was expecting something that hewed a lot closer to the holy bible than it did. I think also the editing of richey's words to fit them into the music left a bit of a sour taste compared to how dense the bible is where they'd fit the music into the words. I hated william's last words for it being edited to imply meaning completely different to the original typed prose but i came to accept that he left these words for them to turn into songs and if his close friend achieved some catharsis doing this then so be it. Then a few years later it really clicked for me and i wouldn't hesitate to put it towards the top of my favourites so lucas needs to give both albums some time then they'll flower for him like they have for us (though i doubt it).

So i don't really see this as holy bible v2.0, it's certainly a spiritual successor but there's not as much bleakness on here as that granite obelisk of an album. The songs are of a troubled mind sure but there's so much dark humour, it reads to me like a version of richey having exorcised his demons through holy bible and coming out the other side and seeing the morbid humour in the people he is surrounded by while recovering. I can't honestly say i'm reading the last words of someone who is planning something drastic, the holy bible gives me that impression but not this.

I did really admire their almost low key approach to promoting this with no singles and playing the album in full was absolutely the way to go (wish they'd played bag lady) even though i got the impression that nicky wasn't entirely happy, the twice i saw it played lived he was very subdued during the first half. Which ya can understand but it was great being a fan because it did feel a bit like they were a four-piece again and not including any tracks in subsequent gigs is appropriate i think despite how much i would have enjoyed hearing them.

Glad you brought up nicky saying he wanted to burn the album after mastering it and james telling him to fuck right off after all the work he put into it, i distinctly remember that but not sure if it was in print or on camera while being interviewed.

Good shout out to the girl from tiger bay by simon, it's such a fantastic track and so very manics slipping in a bit of situationist international. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Y9bVGtW0Q
This is a good point you make here and it makes me wonder even more now if these words were written not only from a post-catharsis state, but also in a looking to the future point of view.

The Holy Bible was clearly written from an incredibly dark perspective by someone going through a traumatic time. I've often heard stories about people who were depressed and went on to take their own lives whose friends and family say that, if anything, that person seemed much happier just before the final act, like once they knew they were going to go through with it, the main mental hurdle was over in a way. The dark and morbid humour you reference in the JFPL lyrics perhaps show that Richey was in a better place mentally not just due to having gotten The Holy Bible out of his system and going through recovery but also maybe as a product of knowing what he knew - ie that he had been planning his disappearance and was looking forward to some kind of freedom from the mental torment and anguish he must have felt leading up to that.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 23-09-2020, 19:33
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ...my fathers can have it.
Posts: 5,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingbird View Post
Wasn't Nicky touring with a slipped disc for the JFPL tour? Might explain being subdued. One date he was so bad he had to sit down and stop playing. Brave boy to keep going. Regardless they were great gigs
Now this rings a bell, yes. That could well be the reason why then but knowing the loss he still feels for him it couldn't have been easy performing these tracks every night with him not being there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starfucker View Post
This is a good point you make here and it makes me wonder even more now if these words were written not only from a post-catharsis state, but also in a looking to the future point of view.

The Holy Bible was clearly written from an incredibly dark perspective by someone going through a traumatic time. I've often heard stories about people who were depressed and went on to take their own lives whose friends and family say that, if anything, that person seemed much happier just before the final act, like once they knew they were going to go through with it, the main mental hurdle was over in a way. The dark and morbid humour you reference in the JFPL lyrics perhaps show that Richey was in a better place mentally not just due to having gotten The Holy Bible out of his system and going through recovery but also maybe as a product of knowing what he knew - ie that he had been planning his disappearance and was looking forward to some kind of freedom from the mental torment and anguish he must have felt leading up to that.
I am familiar with this as well and it's a grim thought to ponder, i think the manics have mentioned in interviews in the past that richey was seemingly happier toward the end and with the benefit of hindsight the explanation can seem clear. To me the words speak of that morbid humour with regard himself, his surroundings and other damaged people but certainly a kind of resignation at the end of it all - 'the more i see, the less i scream'.
__________________
Please, he prayed, now -
A gray disk, the colour of Chiba sky.
Now -
Disk beginning to rotate, faster, becoming a sphere of paler gray. Expanding -
And flowed, flowered for him, fluid neon origami trick, the unfolding of his distanceless home, his country, transparent 3D chessboard extending to infinity.
Inner eye opening to the stepped scarlet pyramid of the Eastern Seaboard Fission Authority burning beyond the green cubes of Mitsubishi Bank of America,
and high and very far away he saw the spiral arms of military systems, forever beyond his reach.
And somewhere he was laughing, in a white-painted loft, distant fingers caressing the deck, tears of release streaking his face.
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 23-09-2020, 21:05
Glyn Glyn is offline
Freed from the century
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 600
One of the things I really love about JFPL is that it shows that Richey's tracks on EMG were part of a much bigger body of work and are a clear ,distinct progression from his lyrics of The Holy Bible period.

Without JFPL it was easy to see Richey's track on EMG as 'leftovers' but when you add lyrics like Removables, Small Black Flowers and Kevin Carter to the JFPL lyrics it's a really impressive collection and surprisingly cohesive (i.e. things like the theme of hospitalisation/captivity that run through it and the cutup technique used for Kevin Carter and Marlon J.D)
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 23-09-2020, 21:05
hummingbird's Avatar
hummingbird hummingbird is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in a quiet corner
Posts: 18,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Now this rings a bell, yes. That could well be the reason why then but knowing the loss he still feels for him it couldn't have been easy performing these tracks every night with him not being there.
Oh yeah didn't mean you were wrong. Should've said "might also explain"

Something else I've remembered from one of the London shows he joked that with his bad back he was doing a good impression of Johnny greenwood from Radiohead but without the talent "

Also this is the first year I noticed a massive dip in quality of the t-shirts / sweatshirts
__________________
IS IT MANICS O'CLOCK YET?
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 25-09-2020, 21:05
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ...my fathers can have it.
Posts: 5,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingbird View Post
Oh yeah didn't mean you were wrong. Should've said "might also explain"
Don't worry, i didn't think you were implying that and neither was i to be clear. Maybe a little from column a and a little from column b... i felt for him though, it couldn't have been easy knowing how close they were.
__________________
Please, he prayed, now -
A gray disk, the colour of Chiba sky.
Now -
Disk beginning to rotate, faster, becoming a sphere of paler gray. Expanding -
And flowed, flowered for him, fluid neon origami trick, the unfolding of his distanceless home, his country, transparent 3D chessboard extending to infinity.
Inner eye opening to the stepped scarlet pyramid of the Eastern Seaboard Fission Authority burning beyond the green cubes of Mitsubishi Bank of America,
and high and very far away he saw the spiral arms of military systems, forever beyond his reach.
And somewhere he was laughing, in a white-painted loft, distant fingers caressing the deck, tears of release streaking his face.
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 06-10-2020, 16:07
chieftan mews chieftan mews is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brighton
Age: 31
Posts: 168
Both parts of JFPL are now out in the world. Simon was so great to talk to!
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 06-10-2020, 21:34
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ...my fathers can have it.
Posts: 5,539
Someone please correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure judge yourself never appeared on the soundtrack, no? It's not on the IMDB listing anyway, though it was intended to be but what with richey going missing...

Simon's top 10 was curious for the lack of more deep cuts that i was expecting, maybe t e lawrence on a bike or something but apart from umbrella (good choice) it wasn't massively surprising. I thought he may have included hold me like a heaven because if my memory serves he was particularly taken with that in a review. Suicide is painless (heavenly version) is indeed the right choice!

Oh yeah... i'm such a bad manics fan for never having got round to reading everything so i'll have to read the updated version whenever that is.
__________________
Please, he prayed, now -
A gray disk, the colour of Chiba sky.
Now -
Disk beginning to rotate, faster, becoming a sphere of paler gray. Expanding -
And flowed, flowered for him, fluid neon origami trick, the unfolding of his distanceless home, his country, transparent 3D chessboard extending to infinity.
Inner eye opening to the stepped scarlet pyramid of the Eastern Seaboard Fission Authority burning beyond the green cubes of Mitsubishi Bank of America,
and high and very far away he saw the spiral arms of military systems, forever beyond his reach.
And somewhere he was laughing, in a white-painted loft, distant fingers caressing the deck, tears of release streaking his face.

Last edited by Tim; 06-10-2020 at 21:41.
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 06-10-2020, 22:36
Routine Builder's Avatar
Routine Builder Routine Builder is offline
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,033
I think Judge Yr'self was demoed at the time but never completed. The vocal track on Lipstick Traces was recorded in 2003 but considering the weird fuckery with Skinheads, who knows if there was an original vocal track to begin with.
__________________


Stand back, I have political powers!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.