Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 27-09-2010, 19:48
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature's Discontent View Post
I thought it was just about all the band members feeling for the first time that they were becoming distant from each other, living their own lives and such rather than being 100% committed to being in a band together.
Sure I just drew the impression it was about Richey from what's been said about that Holy Bible tour with Richey falling back into anorexic routines, with his self harming worrying Nicky with the general feeling that it wasn't fun anymore, touring may always be difficult - being away from home and that but Richey's illness was maybe drawing the band to the idea that the band may not beable to stay together much longer - that feels like the subtext that and having a close friend you feel unable to reach anymore The intensity of the friendship once shared such that it feels like a dream unreal now
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 27-09-2010, 20:52
Tetsuo Tetsuo is offline
Freed from the century
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieslowski View Post
This has been bugging me for the past few days. I've seen people claim in the past that even if Richey hadn't disappeared, EMG would still have sounded like it did since they had already written some of it before he went. But having just finished A Version Of Reason the other day, it reminded me that even the songs that Richey had apparently heard weren't necessarily how they ended up turning out. Here's how I think they break down:

Before he disappeared
Small Black Flowers That Grow In The Sky - I'm positive that Richey had heard and approved the music for this one
Removables - this was written soon after THB, I believe
No Surface All Feeling - since the final version supposedly contains bits of Richey playing guitar, then it's safe to say this was already written before he disappeared

After he disappeared
A Design For Life - the two-page poem it was based on was written in mid-1995
Enola/Alone - inspired by Nicky's wedding photo with Richey and Phillip, who had both now gone
Everything Must Go - about them carrying on after Richey
Australia - Nicky wanting to escape the events of 1995

Not sure
Elvis Impersonator - certainly begun when Richey was around, but since Nicky had to finish off the words himself, then presumably the music wasn't finished either - perhaps explaining the massive musical difference between the first verse and the rest of the song?
Kevin Carter - a Richey lyric, but I believe he didn't like the first "draft" James did, and I think I've read that the final version was what James thought Richey would have liked, i.e. Richey never actually heard the version that went on to be recorded
The Girl Who Wanted To Be God - from the Raindrops sessions, so certainly one of the earliest songs written, and supposed to be the one lyric the actually sat down and co-wrote, but does anyone know if the music was written before Richey disappeared?
Interiors - can't recall seeing anything that suggests when this was written - anyone know?
Further Away - a Nicky lyric from on tour in 1994, but I have no idea if the music itself was written around then. Being the weakest track on the album, I can imagine it perhaps being a late inclusion

Can anyone shed any light on this? I'm basically trying to figure out if EMG could have ended up being an album I would have been more happy with, because I feel that the ones that were definitely post-Richey songs pretty much define the sound of the album.
On Kevin Carter Richey apparently said it sounded "a bit salsa".
James played Richey a cassette tape demo of Small Black Flowers just acoustic.

The documentary interviews on the Anniversary edition of Everything Must Go shed some light on this issue. James spoke of Richey's quest for "Screamadelica played by Pantera and how that was "just Nine Inch Nails". Given that Kevin Carter was apparently sounding a bit salsa I suspect that's the direction James was really wanting to push into ie. more melody.

If they had've followed up the Holy Bible with the Holy Bible II, the same screeching guitars, twisted verses and overall In Utero sound you probably wouldn't have heard of the Manics today. I can't understand this "I'm not happy with the sound of X-album" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deets View Post
yes, because Removables or A Girl Who Wanted To Be God are. but more Removables.

some quotes
@ Elvis Impersonator
Nicky: Richey wrote a draft and it sounded a bit like the group Wire. Me and Sean hated it. There weren't many lyrics anyway. Then I added a verse. I never spoke to Richey about what the original idea was. I suppose it's about kids wearing American basketball tops and stuff.

@ Removables
Nicky: That was written about three years ago. It's the oldest song on there. It was written befor The Holy Bible, and we've finally knocked it into shape. We'd forgotten about this - and then we find a bit of a Nirvana/MTV Unplugged vibe to it, being honest. It was completely done live in the studio. We've had to wait six years (sic!) but we finally played it together in the studio.

Written two years ago when Edwards was heavily into the lyrics of Kurt Cobain. Bradfield and Moore have provided a fitting Nirvana Unplugged backing. A one-take, live studio recording. - from Select Mag June 1996 by Andrew Male

all I could find atm, hope it helps.
Where did them quotes come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vorticist View Post
What did James say exactly about it? Because as far as I can tell the rhythm guitar bit at the end of NSAF sounds very much like Richey's guitar playing (check out the Glastonbury 94 performances when Richey actually played, the tone and overall sound of his guitar sounds pretty close as far as tone goes to whats played at the end of NSAF.)

I think there's some of the original demo left on the final version of No Surface isn't there?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 27-09-2010, 21:15
nocultureicons's Avatar
nocultureicons nocultureicons is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Birmingham
Age: 41
Posts: 9,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
I think there's some of the original demo left on the final version of No Surface isn't there?
I reckon that's just a myth, but then there is an unusual frequency over the solo at the end, almost like the 'sound' a TV makes even when it's muted.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 27-09-2010, 23:39
Kieslowski's Avatar
Kieslowski Kieslowski is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 41
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
If they had've followed up the Holy Bible with the Holy Bible II, the same screeching guitars, twisted verses and overall In Utero sound you probably wouldn't have heard of the Manics today. I can't understand this "I'm not happy with the sound of X-album" stuff.
Nah, THB II would have been awful (well, not awful but it would have been a poor man's THB), but I don't think that could have been a possibility anyway. However, I'm not a fan of EMG, but I've always suspected that there was the makings of a much more interesting album (interesting to me, at least) if you strip out the arena rock songs like Australia, Further Away and Enola/Alone, so the purpose of this thread was to try and determine just how feasible that would have been.

But I suppose that without access to the demos they had done before Richey disappeared, there's just no way of knowing for sure how his disappearance truly affected James and Sean's song-writing, or if that really is the direction they were already headed.
__________________
"A man who had read all the books published today would have had to have read all Dan Brown's novels, two volumes of Chris Moyles autobiography, The World According To Clarkson by Jeremy Clarkson, The World According To Clarkson 2 by Jeremy Clarkson, The World According To Clarkson 3 by Jeremy Clarkson... His mind would be awash with bad metaphors, unsustainable reactionary opinion, and one long anecdote about the time Comedy Dave put pound coins in the urinal.

In short, the man who had read everything published today, would be more stupid than a man who had read nothing."

- Stewart Lee
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 27-09-2010, 23:50
Tetsuo Tetsuo is offline
Freed from the century
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieslowski View Post
Nah, THB II would have been awful (well, not awful but it would have been a poor man's THB), but I don't think that could have been a possibility anyway. However, I'm not a fan of EMG, but I've always suspected that there was the makings of a much more interesting album (interesting to me, at least) if you strip out the arena rock songs like Australia, Further Away and Enola/Alone, so the purpose of this thread was to try and determine just how feasible that would have been.

But I suppose that without access to the demos they had done before Richey disappeared, there's just no way of knowing for sure how his disappearance truly affected James and Sean's song-writing, or if that really is the direction they were already headed.
I think Kevin Carter sums it up to be honest. Sean and James were headed in that direction and Richey didn't seem too approving preferring the Nine Inch Nails inside a food processor mixed in with broken glass and screws. "Sounds a bit salsa" doesn't read like an endorsement in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 28-09-2010, 12:35
deadmartyr's Avatar
deadmartyr deadmartyr is offline
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bristol
Age: 39
Posts: 2,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
"Sounds a bit salsa" doesn't read like an endorsement in my opinion.
Unless it set a spark off in his head and he decided he wanted to leave the band and get into salsa dancing.
__________________
I need a remedy, of diesel and dust. Something I can taste, with a fix I can trust. Another high, more potent than lust. Eating and repeating like the workings of rust and time.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 28-09-2010, 12:42
ulstermanic ulstermanic is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Parramatta, Australia
Posts: 205
INteresting thread. I like to read all this sort of stuff. I think with the internet revolution having occurred post 1996, then we are piecing together some of this.

Had we had a forum such as this back in 1995 or 1996 then the discussions would have been made around the time of the album's release and indeed more magazine, TV and radio interviews would have been posted by forum members giving more details on each song.

To me, EMG is a great album, but doesnt actually fit together as an "album", its almost like a collection of songs from a period of 4 - 5 years all stuck together. The stark contrast from something as uplifting as Australia (good enough once upon a time to be played on Match of The day when great goals went in...) compared with the dreamlike delusion of Further Away (which by the way is a great song in my opinion).

Weakest song on the album is either Elvis Impersonator or EMG itself (a throwaway pop song) in my opinion.

Richey would have hated A Design For Life I reckon, ironic given that is is possibly the bands biggest selling single (pretty sure it sold more than Tolerate and Masses ATC).

Apart from Journal For Plague Lovers, which other post - EMG songs are attributed in some way to Richey? (i.e. he wrote some of the lyric)
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 28-09-2010, 12:55
franny's Avatar
franny franny is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manchester
Age: 31
Posts: 16,304
Picturesque uses some of All Is Vanity. I think that's it.
__________________
European Spoon, European Moon
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 28-09-2010, 13:01
BrianPowell's Avatar
BrianPowell BrianPowell is offline
Desire on its knees
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kirkby, Liverpool, Merseyside
Posts: 818
So there was a chance that some Journal For Plague Lovers lyrics could have ended up on Everything Must Go or vice versa.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 28-09-2010, 13:07
Siouxsie Sway's Avatar
Siouxsie Sway Siouxsie Sway is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: between Nicky and Richey
Posts: 4,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadmartyr View Post
This is Yesterday's a good song, but I do skip it sometimes as although having a lighter moment in the album's a good thing, the change is sometimes a bit too jarring. I prefer most songs on the album to it though.
This Is Yesterday is so insanely beautiful. it's a tie between that and Faster of my fav THB-songs.
__________________
Monsters are real. And ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes they win.

Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 28-09-2010, 13:08
franny's Avatar
franny franny is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manchester
Age: 31
Posts: 16,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianPowell View Post
So there was a chance that some Journal For Plague Lovers lyrics could have ended up on Everything Must Go or vice versa.
No the JFPL lyrics came from the same folder, the one marked 'opulence', JFPL was the first time they used those words save Picturesque.
__________________
European Spoon, European Moon
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 28-09-2010, 13:20
Napoleon Bonaparte's Avatar
Napoleon Bonaparte Napoleon Bonaparte is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Not really caring which way he goes
Posts: 1,692
Might be off on a slight tangent but I think lyrics like Jackie Collins & Stephen Hawking inspired Wire. Things like Rendition & Patsy, Entertainment & Don't Be Evil utilise the same irony laced tone.
__________________
strongerthantheuzi
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 28-09-2010, 13:23
three_days's Avatar
three_days three_days is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
Age: 35
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon Bonaparte View Post
Might be off on a slight tangent but I think lyrics like Jackie Collins & Stephen Hawking inspired Wire. Things like Rendition & Patsy, Entertainment & Don't Be Evil utilise the same irony laced tone.
I don't disagree, Nicky & Richey are more similar as lyricists as some suggest (eg. the way they both reference outside media).

Also Nicky's stated outright that in SATT (the song) he was using Richey's super-wordy style, so he's probably influenced in other ways too.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 28-09-2010, 17:35
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulstermanic View Post
Richey would have hated A Design For Life I reckon, ironic given that is is possibly the bands biggest selling single (pretty sure it sold more than Tolerate and Masses ATC).
Why? Who can say music-wise for it does mark a departure from earlier songs although it fits the lyrics perfectly & the lyrics pretty much sum up all the band have really stood for .... we can't know for sure what he'd have made of it but what's not to love. The band got a song with the line Libraries gave us power in at number 2.......he must have dreamt of such a day
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 28-09-2010, 19:19
Tetsuo Tetsuo is offline
Freed from the century
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon Bonaparte View Post
Might be off on a slight tangent but I think lyrics like Jackie Collins & Stephen Hawking inspired Wire. Things like Rendition & Patsy, Entertainment & Don't Be Evil utilise the same irony laced tone.
Patsy does resemble some of the slightly odd humour found on the Journal songs. Good point.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.