Biggest Manic Folly?

[Manic Street Mike]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

Do you mean it's a misconception that homosexual sex between two men will lead to AIDS?

I do, sorry.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Manic Street Mike

I do, sorry.

Ah, thought so, no worries. Course, you don't even need to have sex to have HIV anyway.

Anyway!

[Manic Street Mike]

Originally Posted by tzb

Er what? If we're talking dangerous then surely unqualified comments like that are pretty high on the list - if one of the participants has HIV then it can lead to AIDS, same as with heterosexual sex. Transmission rates are higher with anal intercourse than vaginal as rectal mucous membranes make for easier transmission.

Well yes, I should've said 'will' not 'can', but the point stands that it's a misconception that the risk is higher with homosexual men - it's exactly the same as between a man and a woman who practise anal intercourse.

[sculptureofabloke]

It was all just Nicky being a pillock anyway. If he's homophobic, he's the most effeminate homo-erotic wannabe homophobe ever.

[Manic Street Mike]

Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke

It was all just Nicky being a pillock anyway. If he's homophobic, he's the most effeminate homo-erotic wannabe homophobe ever.

Exactly. He was feeling egotistical and decided to say something controversial and act like a twat, it didn't work and he now regrets it.

Silly, lovable man.

For what it's worth I really love R.E.M. so I can't exactly defend Wire with this one!

[Nikolai]

I've never understood the fuss about 'Toiletgate' but then I've also never really been a big festival person and got into that 'festival spirit'. I prefer going to individual gigs of bands I actually like and really want to see, getting hammered and enjoying myself and then mooching on back to a comfy bed.

Besides which, wouldn't everyone opt for their own personal crapper at such shindigs if they could get away with it?! I'm not sure Lenin and Marx would ever have decreed, 'a good communist must always share the stinking, fetid dumper at musical communions'

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Nature's Discontent

Only three CORs have voted then

in theory they should not even be on this forum, bar a brief reappearance for a minor album release in 2009

Originally Posted by hummingbird

someone else voted for lifeblood. STOP DOING THAT

bastards, but for give them, for they do not know what they do.

Originally Posted by hummingbird

oh i thought it was a random comment. Pretty spiteful then People judging him now 20 yrs later is a bit silly tho'

i am not entirely sure anyone is "judging" him 20 years later, much like i am sure no one is behaving as an apologist for the man. it was a fucking stupid thing he said, and he's probably rather fortunate that the "politcially correct" movement wasn't as all dominating and judgemental at the time, really.

[sculptureofabloke]

Originally Posted by Manic Street Mike

Exactly. He was feeling egotistical and decided to say something controversial and act like a twat, it didn't work and he now regrets it.

Silly, lovable man.

For what it's worth I really love R.E.M. so I can't exactly defend Wire with this one!

Nicky likes R.E.M. too

Yeah, the Manics' early years were all about sensationalism. Set yourselves on fire on TOTP, "I laughed when Lennon got shot", 4 real, rock n roll is homosexual... Could be here all day, Nicky and Richey were like pullstring dolls sometimes, just spouting anything that'll get em noticed. They didn't have to mean it. Except the 4 real thing

Originally Posted by Nikolai

I've never understood the fuss about 'Toiletgate' but then I've also never really been a big festival person and got into that 'festival spirit'. I prefer going to individual gigs of bands I actually like and really want to see, getting hammered and enjoying myself and then mooching on back to a comfy bed.

Besides which, wouldn't everyone opt for their own personal crapper at such shindigs if they could get away with it?! I'm not sure Lenin and Marx would ever have decreed, 'a good communist must always share the stinking, fetid dumper at musical communions'

Hah, fair point.

I've been to a lot of festivals and seen some downright disgraceful toilets but I'm sure the backstage ones are paradise, even if they're not just reserved for three people. Didn't they justify it by sayin they didn't want to use toilets that everyone's been taking drugs in or something like that? I dunno. I don't think it's anti-socialist or anything like that, it's just amusing. Arguing over a toilet.

[Bathtub]

I think the NME article where they said they'd like to see travellers "treated more harshly" must rank as a pretty big low point.

And Strictly Come Dancing generally. Not that they did it necessarily, but their justification for doing so was weak, they should have just been honest about it.

[pingu]

Originally Posted by Manic Street Mike

Also, it's dangerous to say that AIDS is primarily a homosexual disease - it's not, studies show it's actually more prevalent in heterosexual people. It's a common misconception that homosexual sex between two men can lead to AIDS. This is totally false.

I'm not resurrecting the argument about the comment, but I do want to clarify that that is *not* what I said. I said that during the 1980s AIDS had been the scourge of the gay community, which is true. directly, it killed thousands; indirectly, it intensified prejudice against (especially) gay men, as people blamed them for spreading the epidemic.

essentially, what I mean to say is that in the early 90s the thought of AIDS had a deeper and scarier resonance within the queer community than it does now, which is why that in particular leads me to believe that the comment was homophobic.

phew. it's too late and I'm too tipsy to try and make much sense on the internet

also, I meant to add earlier that proevpete's posts on the '98-'01 era in this thread have been spot on. well said.

[grimlock]

Biggest Manics folly is probably the fact that they've barely played over here in the US (last time, it was 18+ gig when I was 17, and before that, I was 7). Next tour I swear to God they'd better come here, dammit.

[Porco]

'Other' : The Way They've Treated Lifeblood

One could point to lots of petty comments designed to make headlines or sometimes just made without engaging their brains properly, but for me I think it's most of the way they have handled Lifeblood, both from the choice of singles at the time to the way they have continued to denigrate it ever since.

We're all using the word 'folly' to mean 'something foolish', but to me their treatment of Lifeblood can be seen as a kind of metaphoric architectural folly, something built for its own sake, at great expense, with little or no point. They spend time denigrating the album, calling it 'a mistake' or a 'disappointment' at the expense of putting off potential fans who may have actually ended up really loving it and seeing the Manics in a different way.

I think Lifeblood makes the entire Manics back catalogue a stronger, more varied and more interesting one. If they'd gone straight from Know Your Enemy (via Lipstick Traces and Forever Delayed) to Send Away The Tigers I think they'd be a poorer band for it, and I think it's a real shame that the album's relative commercial failure seems to have dictated their view of it so much.

[The Gutless Wonder]

Their treatment of Lifeblood is just plain SILLY!