Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #766  
Old 02-04-2019, 22:52
Son of Stopped's Avatar
Son of Stopped Son of Stopped is online now
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Wirral (Been saying it wrong, didn't realise there was a THE )
Age: 47
Posts: 16,067
I play my Derek Smalls card and ask "Is the diary of a Manic Street Preachers fan" from Melody Maker referenced at all?
Reply With Quote
  #767  
Old 03-04-2019, 00:29
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,442
I'm so CoR everything is rubbish etc etc
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #768  
Old 03-04-2019, 09:38
vaiden's Avatar
vaiden vaiden is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: there's a lot to be said for nowhere
Posts: 256
The only thing I can work out about the Vivian reference is that she may have been linked with the band and/or Richey at some point and was able to approach someone in the manics camp to tell her story. Whether true or not I don’t know but it’s such a huge revelation that surely if it was true Nicky would have thought it would be so important and would have alerted the press or public to her story. The fact we are only hearing this now 24 years later doesn’t sit well with me as truth or Richey cannon.

I agree with Raven above that the book implies that Richey from the outset was developing his story and rock myth at the very beginning of the band seems highly unlikely. In the beginning of his involvement he was focusing on playing up the manics to the press to be discovered. The band already had what they described as a dossier on members of the press and set things they wanted to say and do to draw attention to the band often saying very provocative things for attention. For example, Nicky said something about a sexually transmitted disease like herpes or syphalis to the press to further their image of culture sluts until his mom got very angry and told him to stop.

I have no problem believing that Richey became very disillusioned with these stories they generated to the press hence the song “yes” and were tired of those tactics. However, I don’t put much credence in that in light of him seeking out The female reporter with them in Thailand to discuss his exploits with a prostitute to make some statement regarding his sexuality, I think he played up his naivety with sex and women as he did have many groupies. I think he felt his image should be one of purity I guess. If he truly felt like he said I don’t think he would continue sleeping with groupies after a few tries if he was truly asexual. It’s hard for me to know when he and Nicky were exaggerating the truth or lying to maintain their image. Someone mentioned well this story is the truth because Richey said it when we all know Richey said a lot of things lol doesn’t mean it was true as there are other examples of the incongruous between his truth and reality.

A few things from the book that caught my attention was the mention of a suicide letter written before his first attempt which I had never heard before as well as some of the letters he wrote Jo. I was never quite that sure about her as she had been described as being a huge fan of another group and was only around the manics camp sometimes but not consistently. Although those around the time verified her existence, I think her comments showed me she was real if that makes sense.

As described above by Ravin I too believe that the woman who was friends with Richey at the priory reported a lot of insight about Richey during the time. I’m also a very firm believer that Richey did indeed provide his lyrics to the band so they can be used.

A couple of other things I wanted to point out and was confirmed by some fans around that time was that the fan Becky got herself checked into the priory at the same time to get closer to Richey (?). Regarding Pete Doherty and the libertines, they also used a few lines from someone on the song can’t stand me now which resulted in the inclusion of this persons name as co-writer for the song.

Last edited by vaiden; 08-04-2019 at 11:12. Reason: to spell manics correctly
Reply With Quote
  #769  
Old 05-04-2019, 20:24
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 208
Book thoughts
I have to preface this by saying that my views were prejudiced by what I read about SHR’s behaviour, before I started reading. I am up to the end of chapter 5, and it is not as bad, or as badly written, as I was expecting. That said, three things stand out so far - some of the praise of Richey’s geniuses is laughable; and he really, really does not sound nice. But most importantly, what is with that one paragraph about when Richey was 10 years old?!

Re the evidence of his genius and foreshadowing- mentions of the Severn Bridge are not profound for a person living so close to Cardiff. I lived in the Valleys for a short time, the bridge is a huge feature of life, escape to England, escape to Wales, it’s not a special motif. I live in the North East now, and my son must have done ten pieces of work about the Tyne Bridge before the age of six!

School reports. Not exceptional, sorry. Two Bs doesn’t make ‘excelled at history’. And the comment from his teacher about not being so wide-ranging, is a common mistake for young students, just because you can spill out lots of knowledge, doesn’t mean you’re demonstrating good understanding. Being discerning with your sources is part of the academic skill. I’m not criticising Richey’s teenage enthusiasm, but it’s not good evidence of his intellect in the way it’s presented.

Richey predicted Nirvana’s Pennyroyal Tea more than ten years before it was written?

So Richey wasn’t close to the other Manics at school. And? I don’t remember reading that they were best friends until later, but even if that was part of the myth, so what. Doesn’t mean that they didn’t become close later.

Regarding girlfriends, I just have to say it - some of those descriptions are pretty incel-like. Girls are perfect or they are sullied. Eurgh.

And finally, trigger warning for child abuse

*
*
*
What the fuck was that throw-away paragraph about ten year old Richey running scared out of the woods, from the ‘local weirdo’? Am I alone in thinking the darkest possible interpretation? At the very least, it seems he was in fear of harm. You can’t just throw that in with no substance or analysis!!

Will return in a few more chapters!
Reply With Quote
  #770  
Old 05-04-2019, 21:09
handbag's Avatar
handbag handbag is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post

Regarding girlfriends, I just have to say it - some of those descriptions are pretty incel-like.

I laughed because all the way through I was thinking how Richey would've been on /rk9 posting incel manifestos if it'd been around when he was younger!

The only thing about "the Woods incident" I agree that it seemed like it was just thrown in there. They were desperately grabbing at anything (and maybe padding the book out a bit). " I don’t know if it was an incident". So don't mention it? Too much of the book's a filler.
Reply With Quote
  #771  
Old 05-04-2019, 21:19
Europa Gluten Free's Avatar
Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,358
People. The book is awful. Genuinely awful.
Reply With Quote
  #772  
Old 05-04-2019, 22:11
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Book thoughts
I have to preface this by saying that my views were prejudiced by what I read about SHR’s behaviour, before I started reading. I am up to the end of chapter 5, and it is not as bad, or as badly written, as I was expecting.
Were your expectations set very low? It is badly written and badly needs a good editorial hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
That said, three things stand out so far - some of the praise of Richey’s geniuses is laughable; and he really, really does not sound nice. But most importantly, what is with that one paragraph about when Richey was 10 years old?!

School reports. Not exceptional, sorry. Two Bs doesn’t make ‘excelled at history’. And the comment from his teacher about not being so wide-ranging, is a common mistake for young students, just because you can spill out lots of knowledge, doesn’t mean you’re demonstrating good understanding. Being discerning with your sources is part of the academic skill. I’m not criticising Richey’s teenage enthusiasm, but it’s not good evidence of his intellect in the way it’s presented.
It's a skill you learn isn't it - how to shape your essay, draw out the key facts, draw conclusions you can back up with evidence but also go further and make connections or offer a unique insight or perspective....that enthusiasm is the start of that and I agree that the focus stays only on his schooldays and primarily his early schooldays. There is nothing drawn from his university days, he clearly was academically minded but you wouldn't realise that from the focus on the book and that's what I personally found particularly frustrating. If you want the man better understood and appreciated as a writer you can't just pull out some essays from early school days.
I feel that the point really was to colour everything with his future disappearance, find clues in everything and although I agree with you its ridiculous that's the reason why I think you get these early stories referencing the Severn Bridge and nothing really from his late teens on as they probably couldn't make many links between his thoughts on say American foreign policy and his disappearance....though I'm sure they probably could if they'd tried

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Richey predicted Nirvana’s Pennyroyal Tea more than ten years before it was written?
Oh he was prophetic There are a few bizarre theories around Nirvana. Resented them along with his bandmates don't you know? Me neither. Drug Drug Druggy? Referenced Kurt & Courtney don't you know? No, me neither. Then there's the Kurt was killed conspiracy theory. What isn't really mentioned is the impact Kurt's death may have had on him. Of course he didn't know him but it happened less than a year prior to his disappearance, and like the death of River Phoenix (not referenced in the book) these things seemed to lodge in his mind....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Regarding girlfriends, I just have to say it - some of those descriptions are pretty incel-like. Girls are perfect or they are sullied. Eurgh.
He seemed immature. To be fair though I can't tell from the book if it's just crippling insecurities and shyness he'd have got over in time but his illness had a pretty strong hold from pretty early on. I felt for him in the descriptions from Nicky's wedding, some erroneous conclusions are drawn and I do wonder if he was as visibly shaken as the picture they paint but I just felt he was upset he was losing his best friend and was being left behind ...things seemed to start unravelling more rapidly after that but yeah he did seem to have very fixed ideas - if I marry by the year's end I'll be happy maybe people joked and laughed it off and of course it was unrealistic but well, maybe he just wanted to figure out how a human being gets happy..

I think if he doesn't come across as particularly likeable it's in part because of the way the authors continually want to point score against the big bad band mates and the evil Man down the record label stifling his creativity etc....it gets increasingly frustrating the feeling that you're being allowed close to Richey but only under supervision and with nearly everything he says or does having the author jump up to say he was referencing how orrible the band, record company are

There's practically nothing of the family dynamics touched on beyond his father a little bit and his relationship with his mother is not touched on nor his relationship with his sister really. Apart from it all being wonderful till they left their grandma's house which seemed to make him feel a little adrift though why isn't clear except that he'd clearly spent a lot of time with his gran so it must have been not just a wrench but at that age maybe didn't make much sense as to why things had to change..Growns up eh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
What the fuck was that throw-away paragraph about ten year old Richey running scared out of the woods, from the ‘local weirdo’? Am I alone in thinking the darkest possible interpretation? At the very least, it seems he was in fear of harm. You can’t just throw that in with no substance or analysis!!
I have a lil feeling we are supposed to think something terrible happened in the dark woods with the local 'weirdo'. How weird? I wanted to know - did she go home with him? Tell their mum? Problem is there is a lot of theory and not a lot of substance throughout that it's hard to know if this is true or means anything or he did get a scare but not the kind we're all immediately having our minds turned towards. It's also a bit too neat, like a classic children's horror story beware the weirdo in the woods
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #773  
Old 05-04-2019, 23:57
handbag's Avatar
handbag handbag is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
Speaking of no Nirvana, it's always stated that In Utero was the tape in the car but this book says it was Sex Pistols. Did I miss something?

Speaking of Nicky's wedding, I found that description of a man broken by his friend's marriage strange. He's beaming harder than anybody else on the wedding photos.
Reply With Quote
  #774  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:33
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 208
I haven’t got as far as the wedding etc. But now you mention it, the lack of discussion about family is strange.
Reply With Quote
  #775  
Old 06-04-2019, 10:53
Europa Gluten Free's Avatar
Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,358
The funny thing about the book is that this "exposé" of the what really happened with Richey around this time shows that nobody actually knows anything.

90% of the book is quotes from other already published TV or print interviews, the writers' interpretations of Richey's interest in the arts, and awful interpretations of Richey's lyrics.

10% is "archive stuff" that is really just schoolwork essays and letters to people that obviously mean very little.

It's clear that SHR doesn't know anything. It's sad that it appears that Rachel wasn't so close to Richey around this time and doesn't offer anything either.

As I've said before on here - a REALLY interesting investigative book would be to write about his last year in the band. Simply as a music bio that would be captivating. It is clear (as we all knew before the writing of this book) there were HUGE tensions in the band. Human tensions that the band now gloss over when preferring to just touch upon the myth of the genius of Richey.

But this Traces book is awful.
Reply With Quote
  #776  
Old 07-04-2019, 09:04
vaiden's Avatar
vaiden vaiden is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: there's a lot to be said for nowhere
Posts: 256
I believe the last few posters, Raven, Europa Gluten Free, and Glass Angel are all spot on. I feel the beginning chapter of the book was just filler and wonder if the cause is that it is just filler or something legally removed? The book, dare I say it, was not especially well written. Leaving out the archive, I feel like any of us could have written the book with all of the articles we already have and with more accuracy. Even then, I think it would have been better particularly if we were called to task by the posters that are here now and were there then. The song analysis, the last chapter I believe, was so poor I could barely leave out a giggle every now and again. Richey and Nicky wrote in the liner notes what each song meant to them as did Price in Everything. To make mention of what somebody wrote earlier"...hmmmm.

person in the woods? One paragraph? not convinced nor do I have ANY insight whatsoever about his family. Even though Im not his biggest fan, read Everything by Simon Price for a better book. Meanwhile I'm crossing my fingers that one of the band will get around to an autobiography.
Reply With Quote
  #777  
Old 07-04-2019, 09:06
vaiden's Avatar
vaiden vaiden is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: there's a lot to be said for nowhere
Posts: 256
Oh and Handbag, Nirvana what? I much like you barely glanced over that part as my eyes glossed over. It has always been reported that Richey was playing In Utero when he picked up the reporter and when they located the car.
Reply With Quote
  #778  
Old 07-04-2019, 20:17
handbag's Avatar
handbag handbag is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
I'm surprised SHR didn't attach some deep meaning to the tape left in the car.

"At the end of the Sex Pistols final gig, Lydon repeated, No fun, no fun, this is no fun at all...Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Was Richard telling us he felt cheated by the other band members? Are the lyrics to No Fun telling us how alienated they were making him feel? No fun to be alone/Walking by myself. Let's look at every track by the Sex Pistols for clues. Holiday in the Sun...[write something about the reference to Belsen and Richey's striped pyjamas look]."

That could've been half chapter's worth of word count.
Reply With Quote
  #779  
Old 08-04-2019, 05:11
wannagetout's Avatar
wannagetout wannagetout is online now
Born to end
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Greater London
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post

And finally, trigger warning for child abuse

*
*
*
What the fuck was that throw-away paragraph about ten year old Richey running scared out of the woods, from the ‘local weirdo’? Am I alone in thinking the darkest possible interpretation? At the very least, it seems he was in fear of harm. You can’t just throw that in with no substance or analysis!!
Well it seems, as some here (and doctors at the Priory according the book) have suggested, he had Borderline Personality Disorder. This develops in people with childhood trauma usually.
Reply With Quote
  #780  
Old 08-04-2019, 06:00
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannagetout View Post
Well it seems, as some here (and doctors at the Priory according the book) have suggested, he had Borderline Personality Disorder. This develops in people with childhood trauma usually.
While that may be true, we must be very, very careful about assuming anything about the causes and triggers for mental health difficulties. While I have not got a BPD diagnosis, I have seen psychiatrists about self harm. I will never forget one asking about sexual abuse in childhood, and when I replied that, thankfully, that has not happened to me, she asked ‘are you sure?’, and when I confirmed that I was, she wrote that I was in denial about childhood trauma.

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am that they mentioned that at all.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.