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  #46  
Old 09-12-2014, 20:55
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sculptureofabloke sculptureofabloke is offline
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As much as I'm not into this 20th anniversary of THB, I have to defend the band on this point. THB works because of the lyrics AND the music. You can't separate the two so yeah, just agreeing there.
Aye I think it's massively unfair to the rest of the band to suggest The Holg Bible is Richey's cos credit really is due to the the others. It's a masterpiece and it's theirs (including Richey), not just his.

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He obviously doesn't want to be found if he's still alive. Hundreds of people go missing every year for their own reasons. I don't think you can ever assume someone's dead just because they fucked off.
Eh I'm inclined to agree he's dead. Knowing the state he was in when he disappeared and the two decades that have passed since then, I struggle to imagine how he could still be alive really. Yeah, hear so many stories and theories over the years and fair enough it's not inpossible that he's alive, that he's taken on a new identity and there's some misterious character turned up somewhere alone. I mean, disappearing is one thing and in 1995 it'd have been a hell of a lot easier than it would be today, especially given his fame, but staying disappeared is another thing. I'm not gonna pretend I knew him like others might, but I struggle to believe he's alive and living with knowing what he's done to his friends and family and done nothing about it.
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Last edited by sculptureofabloke; 09-12-2014 at 22:22.
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  #47  
Old 09-12-2014, 21:45
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I'd say the Holy Bible is 'not just another album' due to its lyrics. This is how it is known universally and critically. Anyone can be a musician, Richey could have given his unique vision/ lyrics to anybody and they'd have made something out of them too. James is just a musician, plenty of them about.
Richey was just a lyricist. Plenty of those about!


(With all due respect to Mr Edwards!)
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  #48  
Old 09-12-2014, 22:57
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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
I struggle to imagine how he could still be alive really.
Go and read The Lord of the Rings immediately, that's a serious lack of imagination. All he has to do is not die and grow a beard.

Your, and other, responses to this clearly show that the debate has moved on with time, however. You're surreptitiously suggesting it doesn't matter if he jumped off the bridge, he could have easily died since. Indeed, but only to the extent that it could have happened to any of us. He'd only be in his 40s, why is it hard to imagine he might be alive?
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  #49  
Old 09-12-2014, 23:35
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He'd only be in his 40s, why is it hard to imagine he might be alive?
I think it's this:

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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
I struggle to believe he's alive and living with knowing what he's done to his friends and family and done nothing about it.
Maybe getting away and staying away is an act of self preservation. Maybe that's selfish but why should he stick around being unhappy with his life just to please others? His friends/band members understandably have been through the worry and frustration, but they've got on with life, married, had kids, carried on working.

Does anyone here really know what his family situation was because there was a time when relations with his dad were so bad Richey lived with his grandparents. It's obvious he was close to his sister, but would that be enough to keep him stuck in the rut he felt he was in?

There are stacks of instances where people have taken on new identities leaving behind spouses and children. I suppose if you haven't been there mentally you can't understand it and that's why most of us wonder how he can walk out on his family and have no contact again ever.

It's not wishful thinking that makes me believe he's still alive, I just think that it's not really anything really out of the ordinary that he's never come back. As much as I miss him as a fan, I hope that if he's found some contentment in life then he's never found if that's what he wants.
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  #50  
Old 09-12-2014, 23:36
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He probably could hide himself in any number of ways if he wanted. Wouldn't surprise me if we found out he is still alive somewhere. Aside from my years of changing my mind about his fate, I also find myself torn between my interest in the intriguing mystery of the story, and my profound sympathies for his family. Rachel Elias has to be one of the strongest people around to go through the things she puts herself through.
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  #51  
Old 10-12-2014, 00:24
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Just butting in here -

I don't like to be negative because I love Richey to bits, but if he was alive for months or even years after Feb '95, nature may have just...taken it's course. He was an ill man, as we know.

I like to think getting away from everything and living somewhere so remote it's creepy has helped him by getting away from politics and civilization and everything bad in the world.

For his family's sake, I hope we know soon - the not knowing must be so horrific, I can't even imagine. Rachel is stronger than most and what she does is just so amazing. Constantly hearing and seeing the details and having them recited to her in interviews and such must just be so painful.

If we don't ever find another trace of Richey James, I just hope he's happy and/or at peace.

We don't know the absolute inner workings and dynamics of his family (the living with his grandparents thing), so I wouldn't really speculate (In the nicest way possible)

Edit: The evidence for/against the theory he's still alive is so equal when you weigh it up, it's hard to make a decision i.e he dropped a lot of hints about disappearing but also a lot about taking his own life, his car was found to be lived in but also next to the Severn Bridge. It's just a mystery, and a very solemn and dismaying one if that.

Last edited by gracie; 10-12-2014 at 00:30. Reason: Weighing up evidence.
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  #52  
Old 10-12-2014, 07:23
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Originally Posted by River Boy View Post
Go and read The Lord of the Rings immediately, that's a serious lack of imagination. All he has to do is not die and grow a beard.

Your, and other, responses to this clearly show that the debate has moved on with time, however. You're surreptitiously suggesting it doesn't matter if he jumped off the bridge, he could have easily died since. Indeed, but only to the extent that it could have happened to any of us. He'd only be in his 40s, why is it hard to imagine he might be alive?
A Lib Dem accusing people of being surreptitious? Blimey. Course I'm not suggesting that but now you bring it up, I'd imagine having one of your best friends commit suicide to be preferable to not seeing them from 27ish to however long you live, when you'd known them through childhood, and never knowing what happened to them.

Maybe this very intelligent and emotional and seriously mentally ill, anorexic, alcoholic young man disappeared knowinc exactly how it'd effect those who cared about him and he was absolutely fine with that. Maybe he's never batted an eyelid, maybe he's got no eyelids to bat, maybe he's spent the last 20 years having an orgy with a load of wizards and elves?

[QUOTE=handbag;2626782]I think it's this:

Course that's what I meant, wouldn've thought it'd be worth at least some consideration but apparently not.

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Maybe getting away and staying away is an act of self preservation. Maybe that's selfish but why should he stick around being unhappy with his life just to please others? His friends/band members understandably have been through the worry and frustration, but they've got on with life, married, had kids, carried on working.
Yeah they've carried on with their lives, they've had to, maybe they'd considered other options at times and maybe they thought they'd never want to make people feel the way Richey did to them. Other people getting on with their lives doesn't detract from the utterly selfish thing he did.

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Originally Posted by handbag View Post
Does anyone here really know what his family situation was because there was a time when relations with his dad were so bad Richey lived with his grandparents. It's obvious he was close to his sister, but would that be enough to keep him stuck in the rut he felt he was in?
Oh some of us know Richey better than his mates and family did. I don't know how bad his relations with his dad were, if they were that bad course it's significant but you'd think with touring the world etc it'd have gone on the back burner a bit. It's obvious he was close to his sister yeah, Nicky, James and Sean too, no doubt other people none of us have even heard of either. He didn't think fuck it one day and disappear, he'd been planning it, we don't know how long for, but it's obvious enough that he had. Yeah self-preservation is one thing but how could you live with being so selfish, causing your friends and family that much pain, leaving them wondering what they could've done to stop you doing what you did. Maybe he didn't give a shit at all.

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Originally Posted by handbag View Post
There are stacks of instances where people have taken on new identities leaving behind spouses and children. I suppose if you haven't been there mentally you can't understand it and that's why most of us wonder how he can walk out on his family and have no contact again ever.
There are instances yeah but there aren't so many of people in the public eye who've toured the world and had books and documentaries about them. Course that doesn't make it impossible.

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Originally Posted by handbag View Post
It's not wishful thinking that makes me believe he's still alive, I just think that it's not really anything really out of the ordinary that he's never come back. As much as I miss him as a fan, I hope that if he's found some contentment in life then he's never found if that's what he wants.
I don't really feel that good will towards him. It's an incredibly selfish thing to do and fine, if he has found peace somewhere and he is happy, great, but if it's at the cost of cutting out everyone who ever loved you and denying who you are, I've got no respect for that
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Manics fans, never fucking happy.
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  #53  
Old 10-12-2014, 09:49
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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
I don't really feel that good will towards him. It's an incredibly selfish thing to do and fine, if he has found peace somewhere and he is happy, great, but if it's at the cost of cutting out everyone who ever loved you and denying who you are, I've got no respect for that
As harsh as that possibly sounds, I understand and agree with that sentiment.
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  #54  
Old 10-12-2014, 10:29
begging_to_be_cool begging_to_be_cool is offline
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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
Maybe this very intelligent and emotional and seriously mentally ill, anorexic, alcoholic young man disappeared knowinc exactly how it'd effect those who cared about him and he was absolutely fine with that.

I don't really feel that good will towards him. It's an incredibly selfish thing to do and fine, if he has found peace somewhere and he is happy, great, but if it's at the cost of cutting out everyone who ever loved you and denying who you are, I've got no respect for that
But if you have no self-esteem, no belief that your being around enhances the lives of others, no understanding of the fact that people do love you - no belief in the concept of love at all, in fact - then it becomes a lot easier to believe that you are doing the people you leave behind a favour by getting out of their way.

I hope he's alive.
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  #55  
Old 10-12-2014, 12:09
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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post
A Lib Dem accusing people of being surreptitious?
???

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Originally Posted by sculptureofabloke View Post

Maybe this very intelligent and emotional and seriously mentally ill, anorexic, alcoholic young man disappeared knowinc exactly how it'd effect those who cared about him and he was absolutely fine with that.
I think you're simplifying this a bit. This criticism can be levelled at anyone who's ever acted selfishly through being depressed, or have attempted or committed suicide. That's a lot of people - Richey was also very complex emotionally that's certain and so justifying his actions to himself is his own business to judge.

Completely agree that disappearing can be interpreted as a selfish act but we can't demand of people that they live in turmoil in order not to be selfish or seek personal happiness. I know some very nice people who know longer talk to their families even though it causes a lot of hurt and bitterness.
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  #56  
Old 10-12-2014, 13:16
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I hope he's alive.
I hope he is too.
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Last edited by gracie; 10-12-2014 at 13:25. Reason: Deleting my giant paragraph about Richey because it's not on topic, sorry Takk!!! :S
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  #57  
Old 10-12-2014, 15:00
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???



I think you're simplifying this a bit. This criticism can be levelled at anyone who's ever acted selfishly through being depressed, or have attempted or committed suicide. That's a lot of people - Richey was also very complex emotionally that's certain and so justifying his actions to himself is his own business to judge.

Completely agree that disappearing can be interpreted as a selfish act but we can't demand of people that they live in turmoil in order not to be selfish or seek personal happiness. I know some very nice people who know longer talk to their families even though it causes a lot of hurt and bitterness.
I'll reply through pm, soz Takk
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Manics fans, never fucking happy.
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  #58  
Old 10-12-2014, 15:15
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Since it's christmas, go ahead and post them here .
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  #59  
Old 10-12-2014, 15:24
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I think it's ridiculous they are playing an album lyrically penned by somebody else and trying to pull it off with some conviction. The HB album is all about the lyrics, it is known for its lyrics, and so by doing this they are no different to a tribute act in that respect. Plus the fact they've admitted they don't even know what the lyrics are about! 'REVOL - WTF?!' as they said...
Good lyrics alone do not make a great album. The music must also be good and Edwards had nothing to do with the music. Your argument is invalid.
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  #60  
Old 10-12-2014, 15:53
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
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Oh some of us know Richey better than his mates and family did.
Is this part a joke?

Last edited by PaulTMA; 10-12-2014 at 15:57. Reason: typo
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