Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 27-04-2018, 12:14
Scout Finch's Avatar
Scout Finch Scout Finch is offline
Footprint of history
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 28,673
I wouldn't class it as referencing or quoting recently though but ripping off. Between Vivian sounding like Turning Japanese, Dylan and Caitlin sounding so close to Don't Go Breaking My Heart they're lucky they didn't get sued, Let's Go To War being In the Hall of the Mountain King, and Together Stronger actually being the tune to Can't Take My Eyes Off You (yes I know historically it's what's sung at Wales games but come on)..it just strikes me as lazy songwriting rather than paying homage. Not to mention lyrically... 'we had joy, we had fun, we had some seasons in the sun'

That's just me though. I can also hear a lot of old songs of their own in the new album (Distant Colours' chorus sounds so much like It's Not War to me, the chorus of Sequels is So Why So Sad...).
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 27-04-2018, 12:41
Porco's Avatar
Porco Porco is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout Finch View Post
I wouldn't class it as referencing or quoting recently though but ripping off. Between Vivian sounding like Turning Japanese, Dylan and Caitlin sounding so close to Don't Go Breaking My Heart they're lucky they didn't get sued, Let's Go To War being In the Hall of the Mountain King, and Together Stronger actually being the tune to Can't Take My Eyes Off You (yes I know historically it's what's sung at Wales games but come on)..it just strikes me as lazy songwriting rather than paying homage. Not to mention lyrically... 'we had joy, we had fun, we had some seasons in the sun'

That's just me though. I can also hear a lot of old songs of their own in the new album (Distant Colours' chorus sounds so much like It's Not War to me, the chorus of Sequels is So Why So Sad...).
I don’t see it as ripping off, I see it as postmodern musical bricolage. Quentin Tarantino gets the same kind of criticism for some of his movies ‘homages’ to other films... I think different people have higher or lower thresholds for when the homages, references and lifts become objectionable and cross the line into lazy and /or dull I suppose.

Personally I love that stuff, so I probably have higher threshold for it than most, not just for the manics, I find Star Wars is very similar in what it does in re-using concepts/situations/dialogue but with a slight twist to make it something new, it’s part of why I love it so much, but I recognise it’s something other people get annoyed by.

Long-winded way of saying ‘agree to disagree?’ I guess.
__________________
'Those Manics are great mun ent'it!' | Miyazaki-San, Arigato | POPCORN!


| PorcoTunes: SC=fdporco YT=PorcoForever |
---“...but the pigs are getting into our garden, and just digging holes, looking for truffles or something…"---
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27-04-2018, 18:18
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Quatercircle View Post
People seem to be critising Vivian's chorus for being too repetitive but I don't seem to see the same criticism for it's sister song 'A song for the sadness'. Just wondering why this is?
I wouldn't call that it's sister song? Not that I want to question anyone's parentage. I love A Song for the Sadness and feel there the verses build up to that chorus which is a song for the sadness - to take away the madness. Because I am slow it didn't immediately click (!) that Vivian was a nod to Kevin Carter. That said they are 2 very different people and whilst Kevin Carter felt like a cry of desperation Vivian feels a little like they ran out of words, if I may be so bold. She was a reserved character....the chorus as a homage/anthem could work but doesn't seem in keeping with her character. That's my personal feeling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porco View Post
With the lack of words, perhaps people are inspired to find the negatives in the situation
I see what you did there

Quote:
Originally Posted by UEF View Post
Feck. I had been trying to place it. There seem a lot of nods to the 80s. As far as I know you are OK legally with a riff
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27-04-2018, 19:02
Borderliner's Avatar
Borderliner Borderliner is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spacetime
Posts: 4,550
Vivian is avian!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 27-04-2018, 19:07
Porco's Avatar
Porco Porco is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
Because I am slow it didn't immediately click (!) that Vivian was a nod to Kevin Carter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
I see what you did there
Hah, right back at you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderliner View Post
Vivian is avian!
Ok... ?!

Vivian drank Evian?
__________________
'Those Manics are great mun ent'it!' | Miyazaki-San, Arigato | POPCORN!


| PorcoTunes: SC=fdporco YT=PorcoForever |
---“...but the pigs are getting into our garden, and just digging holes, looking for truffles or something…"---

Last edited by Porco; 27-04-2018 at 19:10.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 28-04-2018, 16:00
Takk's Avatar
Takk Takk is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chasing ManBearPig through the Alps
Age: 39
Posts: 47,786
Straight off this is my truth
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 28-04-2018, 17:38
deadmartyr's Avatar
deadmartyr deadmartyr is offline
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bristol
Age: 39
Posts: 2,019
I quite like the song overall but I just get the feeling that two separate songs could've easily been created instead of being spliced together.

The piano in the verses should have been the backbone that ran right through the song with a similar tone throughout - I'd have much preferred that, and the chorus characteristics would've made for a nice b-side.
__________________
I need a remedy, of diesel and dust. Something I can taste, with a fix I can trust. Another high, more potent than lust. Eating and repeating like the workings of rust and time.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 29-04-2018, 11:17
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 441
And yet no one has noticed the chorus guitar line is essentially playing YLAINE
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 30-04-2018, 19:07
newtransistorhero newtransistorhero is offline
An imitation of dignity
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 50
I think the whole song sounds like It's a Kind of Magic by Queen. It's even got a similar guitar tone.
__________________
@transistorhero
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 27-05-2018, 13:56
slop101 slop101 is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CA, US
Posts: 210
Anyone else think it sounds like he's singing "Oblivion"?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 27-05-2018, 14:03
hummingbird's Avatar
hummingbird hummingbird is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in a quiet corner
Posts: 19,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Anyone else think it sounds like he's singing "Oblivion"?
No but now you've said it I'll probably hear it
__________________
IS IT MANICS O'CLOCK YET?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 27-05-2018, 14:43
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,462
A quote from Derren Brown about his own forthcoming collection of street photos but seems relevant to Vivian so thought I'd post

"Street photography is a fitting refuge for those who look at life from a distance. It both sanctifies our remoteness (by offering the standpoint of the observer) and challenges it, insisting we approach with a spritely curiosity. It offers a safe route back into the world: the camera is an entry ticket to daunting social situations and extraordinary environments where we might otherwise feel entirely out of place. Suddenly we have a role: a reason to be present. And for those of us smitten by its appeal, it provides a means of fortifying and forgetting ourselves, while extending out into the world with a controlled compassion."
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 27-05-2018, 21:15
Dac X Lee's Avatar
Dac X Lee Dac X Lee is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: I live in Seoul (S. Korea), but I'm from Umag (Croatia)
Posts: 3,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Anyone else think it sounds like he's singing "Oblivion"?
My husband thought so
__________________
100 0100 110 0001 111 0010 110 1001 110 0001
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 27-05-2018, 21:26
Routine Builder's Avatar
Routine Builder Routine Builder is offline
Hold me she said, Love me to Death
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,821
Clearly it's Jolly....
__________________


Stand back, I have political powers!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 27-05-2018, 21:27
Son of Stopped's Avatar
Son of Stopped Son of Stopped is offline
Builder of routine
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Wirral (Been saying it wrong, didn't realise there was a THE )
Age: 49
Posts: 16,641
I really should look into words different sung as opposed to lyrics.
Noel has "One I love" as "One eye love" but that's stretching it!
"When the ghosts fuck you" is another one, but James's mishearing might need a thread of it's own
I was with the kid who said it's "Amphibian" anyway!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.