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  #16  
Old 03-09-2006, 14:49
billy billy is offline
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I can't believe that people still doubt the MIDI drums on GT. LISTEN.

James playing the bass parts is a rumour, although highly probable, when you listen to Nicky on the live stuff from around the time.

However, the drums are one hundred million billion per cent computer. Apart from the couple of tracks where Sean played, Damn Dog and the other one. I can't remember.

Stars And Stripes mixes all the way, fuckers.
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  #17  
Old 03-09-2006, 15:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy
I can't believe that people still doubt the MIDI drums on GT. LISTEN.

James playing the bass parts is a rumour, although highly probable, when you listen to Nicky on the live stuff from around the time.

However, the drums are one hundred million billion per cent computer. Apart from the couple of tracks where Sean played, Damn Dog and the other one. I can't remember.

Stars And Stripes mixes all the way, fuckers.
It doesn't mean Sean couldn't play, a lot of rock bands did it in eighties/early nineties.

I can well believe that it's James playing bass - they admitted at the time that they didn't play Motorcycle Emptiness until 1992 because Nicky & Richey couldn't play it live. How simple is the bassline to ME? If he couldn't play that, he probably couldn't play most of the stuff on the album.

But anyway, back to topic. Nicky's definitely improved since then. He's no natural bass player, by his own admission he can't just hear a record once and play along, he has to sit and learn. Plus even in 1997 he struggled with basslines like the one for Interiors - which he did play live, but had to sit down and quite obviously concentrate very hard on. But if he wrote the songs himself I could well believe that he did most of the work on his solo album, if only through practice & repetition. It's not as if he's like Richey and literally cannot play a guitar; he's not an amazing musician but he can do his stuff.
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2006, 15:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counterlanguage
It doesn't mean Sean couldn't play, a lot of rock bands did it in eighties/early nineties.
Didn't say he couldn't. And yeah, I know of bands who do it now as well. The only difference is sequencers are getting better.
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2006, 15:40
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centralscrutiniser centralscrutiniser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy
Didn't say he couldn't. And yeah, I know of bands who do it now as well. The only difference is sequencers are getting better.
Why do they do it? They prefer the sound?
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2006, 15:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centralscrutiniser
Why do they do it? They prefer the sound?
Sometimes. On a budget, a computer is cheaper and easier than recording drums and making them sound perfect. It also means parts can be tweaked, edited, and whole drums/parts can be replaced in seconds if needs be.

Also, computers are accurate, and real drummers aren't.
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  #21  
Old 03-09-2006, 15:53
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It's not just that the drums are midis on GT, it's made even worse by the songs being produced so badly. I'm pretty sure some of the songs that ended up as GT B-sides feature real drums, and even if they don't, they sound more authentic than what's on the album. For instance, Democracy Coma, a song not helmed by the album-ruining producer Steve Brown, sounds organic compared to, say, anything on GT.
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  #22  
Old 03-09-2006, 16:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmileBehindBrokenTeeth
It pisses me off that Wire is seen as a musician. He can't play a note on the Manics albums, it's always james who does the bass.
You are so deeply wrong about that it's not even funny.

Would you please stop pretending that you know what you're talking about?
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  #23  
Old 03-09-2006, 16:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by another invented username
It's not just that the drums are midis on GT, it's made even worse by the songs being produced so badly. I'm pretty sure some of the songs that ended up as GT B-sides feature real drums, and even if they don't, they sound more authentic than what's on the album. For instance, Democracy Coma, a song not helmed by the album-ruining producer Steve Brown, sounds organic compared to, say, anything on GT.
Most of the B-Sides were recorded after the album, and did have live drums. I recall Nicky (?) saying that Democracy Coma should have been a single, never mind an album track, but it just didn't exist until after the album's release.

To add more confusion to the whole issue, I'm lucky enough to now and again speak to one of the engineers from one of the b-side recording sessions in 1992 (he now lectures acoustics at my uni). He says one of the tracks from the session ended up used, possibly Bored Out Of My Mind, but I can't remember. He was telling me a story about it being a sunny day in April, and the "bassist and the rhythm guitarist wearing giant fur coats". To his recollection, Richey did play something or other on there, but that doesn't mean it was used.
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  #24  
Old 03-09-2006, 17:45
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well his first picked up a bass guitar and a normal guitar 2 decades ago. i think that is long enough to play what are fairly simple lead lines.
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  #25  
Old 03-09-2006, 17:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach Psychosis
You are so deeply wrong about that it's not even funny.

Would you please stop pretending that you know what you're talking about?

I don't consider Nicky Wire to be a good bass player. He's very, very, average. James has done the bass on countless tracks in the various sessions. If you actually read through a lot of the articles, interviews, etc, he has said he has played the bass. I know he did the bass-line on AOP and he also did the bass on black garden and on Miss Europa Disco Dancer.
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  #26  
Old 03-09-2006, 18:33
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But 'Democracy Coma' came out before 'GT'?!!

Anyway. we all know he plays on the clueless fuckwit thing, I can't wait for the album, I really like the fact that Bradfield's done the whole respectable AOR singer-songwriter over-polished thing, whilst Nicky's very much Indier-Than-Thou

'I Killed The Zeitgeist' is bound to be engaging listening. His voice beats Sam ex-Hope of the States hands down, for instance. 'Break My Heart Slowly' is a sweet little song, the naivety is charming...
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  #27  
Old 03-09-2006, 18:57
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You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmileBehindBrokenTeeth
It pisses me off that Wire is seen as a musician. He can't play a note on the Manics albums, it's always james who does the bass.
Then you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmileBehindBrokenTeeth
I don't consider Nicky Wire to be a good bass player. He's very, very, average. James has done the bass on countless tracks in the various sessions. If you actually read through a lot of the articles, interviews, etc, he has said he has played the bass. I know he did the bass-line on AOP and he also did the bass on black garden and on Miss Europa Disco Dancer.
There are tremendous disparities between those two statements. I won't insult anyone's intelligence by enumerating them.

Nicky Wire may not be a musical genius, but whether you like it or not, he is a competent musician.
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  #28  
Old 03-09-2006, 20:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmileBehindBrokenTeeth
. I know he did the bass-line on AOP and he also did the bass on black garden and on Miss Europa Disco Dancer.
nicky wire said in an interview he played bass on aop, and in the credits in kye theres no metion of james playing bass on medd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach Psychosis
Nicky Wire may not be a musical genius, but whether you like it or not, he is a competent musician.
exactly. anyone who has been playing live shows from 1989 is going to be a competent musican
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  #29  
Old 03-09-2006, 20:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfadaptor
But 'Democracy Coma' came out before 'GT'?!!

Anyway. we all know he plays on the clueless fuckwit thing, I can't wait for the album, I really like the fact that Bradfield's done the whole respectable AOR singer-songwriter over-polished thing, whilst Nicky's very much Indier-Than-Thou

'I Killed The Zeitgeist' is bound to be engaging listening. His voice beats Sam ex-Hope of the States hands down, for instance. 'Break My Heart Slowly' is a sweet little song, the naivety is charming...
Lets compare it to bob dylan and Wayne Coyne too, They aren't comparable in voice its just that both can't sing in a traditional way.

Saying all this the simplicity of guitar on everything fades is beautiful its sorta of a worry that james seems destined on every track of his bar two to stick a massive solo in the middle.

Its not needed really.
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  #30  
Old 03-09-2006, 20:57
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Nicky isnt the greatest bass player, he knows that. He CAN play, he's a competent musician; he's average. In fact, he has improved over the years, he now plays with his fingers as well, the bass playing on lifeblood is actually really good, and yes it was nicky who played it, even toni visconti said he was good! To say he's not a musician or he can't play is ridiculous, Ive seen him with my own two eyes playing bass, and it sounded great too, otherwise the manics really would be a bollocks live band if 1/3 of the sound lacked.

I reckon Nicky played some of the electric guitars (im not sure about solos, i havent heard said tracks) e.g. the guitar in the IKTZ chorus, but the backing vocals sound like greg haver. Doesnt really matter, David Bowie writes his songs then his musicians play on the records most of the time he just does vocals/keyboards.

Anyway, I cant wait for Nicky's album!
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