It's Not the Loudness War, Just the End of Drums

[GretschGuitar]

The Blackstar thread got me thinking..


To me, JDB is the best rock guitarist ever. Just wanted to preface that before this post..

Maybe I'm the odd man out here, but I don't think it matters what JDB uses anymore. Blackstar. Marshall. Mesa.

I haven't been crazy about his studio guitar tones on the last couple albums. His playing and the songs themselves were awesome as always, but his distorted rhythms were way too saturated and thick. (This started with "Found That Soul." Listen to the dynamics on "Archives of Pain" and then listen to "FTS.") Maybe we can chalk it up to the "Loudness War" style of mastering? Anybody else ever heard/discussed this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

I think even if he used the same SL-X Marshalls he had in the 90's today in the studio, the result would come out the same as post-KYE.

Part of the reason why THB, GT, and GATS (yes, even GATS) were so exciting of a listen, were that his guitar riffs and the music could breathe. You could even hear Sean and Nicky. Ever since KYE, it's just been a wall of sound.

It's ridiculous how much quieter the original release of THB was in comparison to JFPL. JFPL - your ears will bleed with your cd player's volume on 2. And for THB - you'd have to crank your cd player's volume to 8 to get it 1/2 that loud.

Just an observation. Maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but this is probably why it's harder for some to warm up to the new songs.


Anyway, just wanted to throw in my $0.02 (I'm in the US.)

[GoldAgainstTheSoul]

I don't know, JDB's guitar could sound exactly as it did on Bag Lady the rest of their careers and I'd be happy....

[nocultureicons]

I can certainly see what you mean but of all the Manics album, Know Your Enemy has my favourite production.

[Lone Architect]

I've encountered the Loudness War theory before (it stemmed from an argument two mates were having over the merits of the first Arcade Fire album, so must have been about five years ago) and I think it's certainly true that post 1995 Manics albums sound fuller than THB, but I think GATS does too, with exceptions - '...Tourettes' is quite a sludg of noise. Let's not discuss the prouction on GT, it makes my ears weep.

THB is a bit of an anomaly which could be part of its enduring appeal, it's different.

I don't think loudness is in itself a bad thing, I like a lot of post-rock which can be extremely dense at times, even in the 'quiet' bits, but I think you're right that it can drown out the more subtle parts of songs which is a shame.

[Dancing Kirby]

I can't agree overall that it's part of the loudness war because other artists' albums are still louder and clearer than recent Manics ones.

EMG is by far the worst sufferer of Muffled Drums, Bass And Strings Syndrome. Despite what you might think of the current production techniques, the clarity is pretty good on recent albums by Manics standards.

Originally Posted by Dancing Kirby

I can't agree overall that it's part of the loudness war because other artists' albums are still louder and clearer than recent Manics ones.

It's not the loudness per se that bothers people, it's the loss of dynamics that results from the added gain + the compression applied to the tracks to reduce clipping and distortion. It makes the drum and bass sounds lose their impact and at worst makes the recording sound very dull and lifeless.

The one MSP album that suffers most from this is, IMO, Lifeblood. At times it just sounds like a huge wall of noise with no dynamics at all, the individual instruments just get drowned in the mix. I'd say songs like Empty Souls would definitely benefit from a less compressed sound. SATT is another album that suffers from this.

Now here's the funny thing: open any tracks (preferably the rockier tunes) from JFPL and, say, SATT with an audio editor of your choice and compare the waveforms of the two tracks. The difference is quite noticeable.

[screamingsoul]

The Manics generally don't suffer as much from over compression as some bands. Metallica's Death Magnetic, now there's an album that has been compressed to the point of being unlistenable. I have to disagree with the OP about JFPL in particular, I think it's one of their best produced album and not a wall of sound at all. You only have to listen to the drums in Peeled Apples, the strings in This Joke Sport Severed, and the chorus bass lick in the title track to recognise how much more dynamic the production is than in most Manic releases.

[Joe-eh]

I actually quite like the production of GT as there's so much going on that you half don't realise, but it is all quite audible. Shame about the over all mastering of it really.

[tucka]

for me the loudness of Manics albums doesn't really seem to be an issue as there doesn't seem to be as much compression as many other artists albums. Obviously they could be mastered better but they are no way poorly mastered

[Tidus]

I totally get where the OP is coming from, some of his guitars have sounded...interesting at times. Found that Soul is a fine example, very dodgy sound going on there.

[roi]

I can hear that on SATT for sure, especially the chorus of The Second Great Depression

[Tiortranew]

I don't listen to GT anymore because the production is so terrible. THB's production was adequate, but not really good. EMG was pretty bad too. I think KYE and JFPL are the best produced Manics albums to date.