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  #316  
Old 14-02-2019, 13:02
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Originally Posted by raven View Post
I took the quote about Martin Hall going to see Richey's dad in a hotel lobby to ask permission to use the lyrics as an implication that it was a mere formality rather than coercion
Excuse untidy reply, a phone job again.

That is the truth, and I'm glad it reads like that. But that wasn't the intention of the person who quoted about the meeting (forgive me, I am unsure if it was Rachel or SHR). I think the reception of such a quote depends on context the reader may have gained elsewhere, and the opinion of the band/management. Thankfully, from what you've said, that's positive. Perhaps it will remain that way.


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As for allegations against James.....why even bother to repeat or allude to them here. It's sheer spite on the part of SHR ... similar and equally unsubstantiated rumours have been thrown at Richey and she took them and instead of just dismissing them which is what you do with unsubstantiated bollox threw them at James. It's childish at best, playground level, and as they've no credence they shouldn't be given oxygen, even if its just to repeat so as to damn it, just ignore it and of course that shit can't be published
Because context, because this is the fear. The fear is something like that is in the book, and not on a forum which (with the greatest of respect) relatively few people read.

The same accusations against Richey... The exact same accusations. Because she was always talking about Richey when she said them. She's performed a sleight of hand to transfer them to James, because it fits the current narrative.

If mentioned at all, I doubt it would be overtly so. As you say, not exactly publishable. It may not even fit into the book. It may have been removed... Who yet knows?

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I don't think anyone's puzzling over why the delays and the taking down of interviews and of links to pages ha
Lots of people are, but that's just individual. Not everyone will be in the loop. There have been changes to the book. I don't know why interviews/links have been removed, merely have a feeling.

You say I've speculated on certain things. I haven't.

There is, however, a missing link between why the author should attempt such an undertaking, when she had previously had nothing but disdain for Richey.

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And as for being able to grieve if everything about the man seems perfect.
I didn't make myself well understood here: I don't mean Richey, I mean the relationship. Am willing to hear that anyone's experienced otherwise, there are bound to be plenty, but my own experience is that you feel like you're better permitted to grieve if you can make out like you had a happy relationship. I speak as someone whose partner went missing and was found dead.

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I'm not sure if there's an implication the 3 remaining band members will off themselves as a consequence of the book in sim's post?
That's not what I suggested at all, I don't really think it was unclear - the band haven't ever been spared the trauma, or been afforded any privacy. We speak about the possibility of Richey having taken his own life (the correct phrase), yet continually are unconcerned with the mental health of those he left behind.

Basically, all this is serious padding for the message: if new information had been found, should we be entitled to it? Who benefits?

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Having said that I'll be surprised if it is actually published
I'm not sure if I would be surprised myself. I think at this point it's looking fairly likely it will be? I mean, a big publisher like Penguin isn't going to let it go, surely? Having said that, the book's been through a lot of hands, had a lot of attention, and I suppose it could go either way. We'll have to wait and see!
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  #317  
Old 14-02-2019, 17:39
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Controversial maybe but the more I read about him the less I want to know about his private life and school reports etc are pretty boring to see.
I feel kind of bad and like Sim said, voyeuristic in some ways looking at this stuff. I think people really should use discretion when it comes to other people's personal life. Just because they have some notoriety and are likely dead doesn't mean they should be exempt from the basic principles of privacy. Also, the use of the letters he sent to a girl he liked seems slimy all around. Even if the contents are mundane, the intent is to establish something he never made public while around so why talk about it now? It's one thing to speak about experiences you've had with another individual, but it's another thing entirely to disclose intimate details about them. Of course there are exceptions and if people felt violated by him then they have every right to speak their truth.

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Lots of self-publishers do things like this, as it enables them to start marketing the book online before it's finished. Less typical with decent publishers, if that's what behind this.
Penguin books is publishing it though.

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Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
As for accusations being thrown at him, Richey was hardly saint in that regard. How can she vilify James for that when Richey was doing the exact same and possibly worse?
What accusations? Was he accused by someone of doing to that writer who was in a relationship with a relatively well known Irish actor what Richey was accused of doing to a Japanese friend of a friend of a friend?

Last edited by Bryter Layter; 14-02-2019 at 17:43.
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  #318  
Old 14-02-2019, 18:04
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I reckon when SHR came on here it was a preemptive attack on JDB to deflect attention away from Richey's alleged incident with a Japanese fan, knowing full well that she would be on here defending Richey and digging for stuff for her book which was always going to include huge criticism of the band.
She wouldn't want anything bad about Richey brought up during her research so she went on the attack against other band members straight away as some form of justification of his actions if it was needed.
That's my theory anyway!
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  #319  
Old 14-02-2019, 18:30
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Originally Posted by beautifuldistortion View Post
I reckon when SHR came on here it was a preemptive attack on JDB to deflect attention away from Richey's alleged incident with a Japanese fan, knowing full well that she would be on here defending Richey and digging for stuff for her book which was always going to include huge criticism of the band.
She wouldn't want anything bad about Richey brought up during her research so she went on the attack against other band members straight away as some form of justification of his actions if it was needed.
That's my theory anyway!
Yep. Basically the evidence points to this. Friend sent me a screenshot of eyewitness stories of Richey with the person JDB was alleged to have been with. I'm not really interested in spreading such tales, but it does point to enormous contradictions. Which in turn should discredit anything the author says.
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  #320  
Old 14-02-2019, 18:45
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
What accusations? Was he accused by someone of doing to that writer who was in a relationship with a relatively well known Irish actor what Richey was accused of doing to a Japanese friend of a friend of a friend?
That is roughly what I deduced from Sim's post. Initially I just thought age was the issue. Then the wider implication clicked.
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  #321  
Old 14-02-2019, 18:48
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Originally Posted by beautifuldistortion View Post
I reckon when SHR came on here it was a preemptive attack on JDB to deflect attention away from Richey's alleged incident with a Japanese fan, knowing full well that she would be on here defending Richey and digging for stuff for her book which was always going to include huge criticism of the band.
She wouldn't want anything bad about Richey brought up during her research so she went on the attack against other band members straight away as some form of justification of his actions if it was needed.
That's my theory anyway!

But when she came on here initially, she was just as scathing about Richey's fans as she was the others. It seems she's had quite the Damascene Conversion to Richey's cause since she met Rachel and decided to write this book.

Last edited by Velocitygirl; 14-02-2019 at 20:18.
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  #322  
Old 14-02-2019, 18:53
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Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
But when she came on here initially, she was just as scathing about Richey as she was the others. It seems she's had quite the Damascene Conversion to Richey's cause since she met Rachel and decided to write this book.

Which absolutely is why it's completely reasonable to be suspicious about the whole undertaking.
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  #323  
Old 14-02-2019, 19:17
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Which absolutely is why it's completely reasonable to be suspicious about the whole undertaking.
I think it's safe to say that every person contributing to this thread has major misgivings about the book. I'd go as far as to say many are hostile, and I count myself among them.
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  #324  
Old 14-02-2019, 20:08
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Wait, are you guys saying that SHR was hostile towards Richey at some point? When was this? Under another one of her usernames perhaps? I don't ever recall her being anything other than highly reverential about him. Almost implying that she was his mouthpiece in absentia or something.

Like the alleged Richey incident, I'm extremely skeptical about second hand information passed through several different sources. I'm especially skeptical when an alleged victim has talked/written publicly about their life quite recently and never mentioned anything of the sort. Of course that doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I'm skeptical and most people should be. I've not read any of the individual in question's books, but I remember someone saying that there was a rather sad incident mentioned in one of them and there was some back and forth about which one did it to her because she never mentioned the person by name (again, I do not know what happened, but based on the way it was described, I don't think it was anything violent, but rather perhaps someone she was having it off with was a massive prick to her. That's the gist I got) someone who knew the band back in the day said they thought it sounded like something Richey would do, but I believe SHR said it was JDB or something to that effect. The bottom line is, when she was supposedly seeing JDB, she was of age. I mean, some may have ethical issues about people in their mid 20s messing around with people in their late teens, but it's certainly not illegal.
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  #325  
Old 14-02-2019, 20:18
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
Wait, are you guys saying that SHR was hostile towards Richey at some point? When was this? Under another one of her usernames perhaps? I don't ever recall her being anything other than highly reverential about him. Almost implying that she was his mouthpiece in absentia or something.
Apologies, it was Richey fans. I'll edit my last post to reflect that.



Quote:
Like the alleged Richey incident, I'm extremely skeptical about second hand information passed through several different sources. I'm especially skeptical when an alleged victim has talked/written publicly about their life quite recently and never mentioned anything of the sort. Of course that doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I'm skeptical and most people should be. I've not read any of the individual in question's books, but I remember someone saying that there was a rather sad incident mentioned in one of them and there was some back and forth about which one did it to her because she never mentioned the person by name (again, I do not know what happened, but based on the way it was described, I don't think it was anything violent, but rather perhaps someone she was having it off with was a massive prick to her. That's the gist I got) someone who knew the band back in the day said they thought it sounded like something Richey would do, but I believe SHR said it was JDB or something to that effect. The bottom line is, when she was supposedly seeing JDB, she was of age. I mean, some may have ethical issues about people in their mid 20s messing around with people in their late teens, but it's certainly not illegal.
And this entirely; you're spot on.
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  #326  
Old 14-02-2019, 20:39
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Apologies, it was Richey fans. I'll edit my last post to reflect that.
Oh, I see! I could have sworn I saw someone else say the same though which is why I was confused. I know for a fact she has had a few other usernames. If memory serves correct, there was one that she used over a decade ago to ask about Richey's sex life and about Jo. Even back then, she seemed to know a lot of personal info on him which she said she got from some people that knew him. I think she even had pictures of him before he was in the band. I can't find that user name anymore so maybe she deleted it or maybe the admins archived the years that account was active?
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  #327  
Old 14-02-2019, 20:48
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This gets worse! If this is how she goes about collecting information for a book then her integrity is non existent.
So she must just be a complete psycho with an obsession and has been fortunate enough to weasle her way into his sisters life.
This is mental!
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  #328  
Old 14-02-2019, 21:49
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Originally Posted by beautifuldistortion View Post
So she must just be a complete psycho with an obsession and has been fortunate enough to weasle her way into his sisters life.
This is mental!
Not only his sister, she nudged her way into being a friend of Emma Forrest to the point Forrest dedicated a book to her. It's creepy as fuck.
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  #329  
Old 14-02-2019, 23:09
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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This gets worse! If this is how she goes about collecting information for a book then her integrity is non existent.
So she must just be a complete psycho with an obsession and has been fortunate enough to weasle her way into his sisters life.
This is mental!
I don't know if this is in response to what I wrote about her earlier account (I can't say with absolute certainty it was her, but a very knowledgeable fan who knew her, told me that she was was the same person), but if it is relating to that, I don't think she was gathering information for a book at that time. I think she was in her teens/early 20s at the time and probably had just discovered him and was curious about him like a typical young person interested in a teen heartthrob. Although asking whether he really liked anal sex was probably not usual. Or maybe it is. LOL!

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Not only his sister, she nudged her way into being a friend of Emma Forrest to the point Forrest dedicated a book to her. It's creepy as fuck.
Yep! An interesting pattern.
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  #330  
Old 15-02-2019, 00:39
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Authors get royalties when their books are borrowed from the library. Not as high as a sale but still income. Something to bear in mind for those wanting to read it.
Hey I see through you... Making it harder. Authors only get 7p a loan...3 and a ha'penny each. On the positive side libraries get an issue and an extra visit, if that's all you've gone in for, to add to their stats...maybe even a new member.....everyone should join their local library...that be free....let's make something good come out of all this Maybe you'll leave with a much better read in your bag

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Excuse untidy reply, a phone job again.

That is the truth, and I'm glad it reads like that. But that wasn't the intention of the person who quoted about the meeting (forgive me, I am unsure if it was Rachel or SHR). I think the reception of such a quote depends on context the reader may have gained elsewhere, and the opinion of the band/management. Thankfully, from what you've said, that's positive. Perhaps it will remain that way.
I'm still not convinced it was intended to look like his dad had been coerced. But it certainly was intended to besmirch the band. Absolutely. I can only doubt it came from Rachel directly because she has spoken publicly of her discomfort at the use of the lyrics whilst acknowledging permission of their dad had been sought. I feel she has more restraint in short.
SHR should have remained objective if she is first and foremost a writer ... The band clearly struggled a long time over whether they should write music for and record the lyrics left to them, it was never going to be a commercial success though it was a critical hit for which they should be proud. What better tribute could they have made to their old friend who left them his lyrics? He did say a lot of what he wrote went off into the river so if he was sure of anything seems safe to say he was sure he wanted the words he handed over to be used. Though of course because he's no longer here anyone and everyone close to him will have an opinion, will have doubts, is this what Richey would have wanted, the band first and foremost ....Maybe Rachel has different opinions, fine, understandable even and surely she as much as the band would have worried over how his lyrics would be received, interpreted and whether the band had done justice or shaped the interpretation etc etc but I feel SHR has taken her doubts as permission to undermine the band and blacken their name. Which from her just comes across as sheer spite and completely unsubstantiated because she isn't his sister, she wasn't a friend, she has no personal emotions to try and resolve she just looks like she's trying to look for a new angle to make a sale. People will see that




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Because context, because this is the fear. The fear is something like that is in the book, and not on a forum which (with the greatest of respect) relatively few people read.

The same accusations against Richey... The exact same accusations. Because she was always talking about Richey when she said them. She's performed a sleight of hand to transfer them to James, because it fits the current narrative.

If mentioned at all, I doubt it would be overtly so. As you say, not exactly publishable. It may not even fit into the book. It may have been removed... Who yet knows?
If she's idiotic enough to have put such things in the book they will have been removed. She has been idiotic, a rumour is a rumour and more than not rumours are malicious so as a writer she had no reason to pay any heed if she could find no substance but instead it seems like they gave her an idea to really stick the knife in the band....As if she was writing the next ep of Eastenders and wanted a duff duff moment instead of a work of non-fiction. She seems to have taken the approach that every rumour...especially around his disappearance all need to be given equal merit....they don't, all can be considered sure and then most of them (most likely) can be tossed without touching the book.....He was beamed up by Scotty to the Mothership...let's weigh up the facts...Noooo...window...throw

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I didn't make myself well understood here: I don't mean Richey, I mean the relationship. Am willing to hear that anyone's experienced otherwise, there are bound to be plenty, but my own experience is that you feel like you're better permitted to grieve if you can make out like you had a happy relationship. I speak as someone whose partner went missing and was found dead.
Ah, I understand now. I just feel in this situation no one can really grieve because they don't know he's dead and I imagine you could convince yourself of it one day then be full of doubt the next so you can't ever work through or resolve any feelings and you need to know even though knowing probably wouldn't really resolve anything in many ways......
But I do understand what you're saying, you still hear 'don't speak ill of the dead' as if all is resolved, forgiven and forgotten even if they were a complete bastard. And of course if someone's taken their life then come all the questions/feelings of guilt, blame, anger, protectiveness, relief in some cases and difficult maybe to just let your guard down and speak honestly ....everyone's different, everyone reacts differently obviously and it does feel SHR has disregarded complexities for the sake of a black and white picture though I don't know what she's hoping to achieve unless of course you have a certain narrative in mind....that he felt pushed out, unappreciated etc that here are reasons why he may have left with no trace which is ridiculous in its sheer simplicity....more of us would disappear from our lives if it was all down to feeling unappreciated and frustrated in the day job....as well as backed up by erm nothing
Sorry to hear about what happened to you. I think on forums and well social media generally we can forget there's a person sitting behind the screen and when it comes to discussions like this some people may be bringing more of themselves into it than we always realise so we all should tread a little more kindly



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That's not what I suggested at all, I don't really think it was unclear - the band haven't ever been spared the trauma, or been afforded any privacy. We speak about the possibility of Richey having taken his own life (the correct phrase), yet continually are unconcerned with the mental health of those he left behind.
I misunderstood. Your reference to the biggest killer of young men (suicide) ... I thought you were referring to the band and their potential reaction but wasn't entirely sure. Sorry. I think people do care about those left but I agree that Richey, as happens with other suicides, becomes thee story, becomes the tragic figure, the mystery no one can resolve.......maybe, I don't know, maybe because the act they do whether that's to take their life or disappear leaves such huge consequences and so many questions and memories it's easy to forget that though what they did was huge it was also brief, not necessarily weeks or even days in the planning but a decision taken in a certain state of mind at a given moment in time, but those left think there must have been some considered reason for such a big decision when maybe there was no reasoning, no real control but the opposite we try and make logic out of the illogical....

Anyway yes we can forget as fans or as writers that of course you can talk about it but it's not an episode of Broadchurch for everyone, it's not just interesting gossip. I could surmise Rachel feels the band have always had an outlet or platform for their memories and she doesn't have that in the same way....she's losing 'her' brother, I could be wrong and guilty of doing what I don't think others should (!) I get that but for SHR to be scathing as she has been about the band discussing Richey and using the tragedy for their own ends that I don't understand and can't be excused, just malicious...God, I'm talking myself out of wanting to read it now
It would be just plain weird if they never spoke about him. I know they don't seem keen to have it pointed out but it does seem Nicky's trying to resolve a lot of feelings around Richey, Richey haunts a lot of his lyrics I can't see that it's down to SHR or anyone to express her arseish cynicism. Is she mixing him up with a politician? Oh, silly me, cos of course they don't have any politics neither do they??? Playground.
I feel it's good to hear them talk about him and their history, awkward if they're asked about what they think happened, don't see a reason to be so cloddish but I don't think they get that so much now...though yeah they might on the back of this book


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I'm not sure if I would be surprised myself. I think at this point it's looking fairly likely it will be? I mean, a big publisher like Penguin isn't going to let it go, surely? Having said that, the book's been through a lot of hands, had a lot of attention, and I suppose it could go either way. We'll have to wait and see!
Virgin's the publisher isn't it? Owned by Penguin/Random House true but I suspect Penguin wouldn't have published. Virgin's more music biogs/entertainment isn't it? Penguin the serious stuff The classics. No fear of that here. It seems clumsy putting it back twice in a short time as if someone took a look and then having took a look decided it needed a more thorough look. If it needs a lot of revision or re-writing it won't be ready come the month's end but we'll see
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