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  #211  
Old 20-09-2018, 07:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roi View Post
I’m reminded in a way of the forthcoming ‘remake’ of David Bowie’s Never Let Me Down, which was Bowie’s idea before he died: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-album-702189/

Yeah OK, that’s probably Bowie’s worst album, but it’s the same principle of messing with the past. Rightly or wrongly that approach kind of suits the Manics - they’ve always been very nostalgic and very anti-nostalgic at the same time.
Never Let Me Down is an interesting comparison. In terms of the re-worked version, I don't really see it as messing with the past, because the original version of the album is going to be on the box set too. I'm personally really looking forward to the reworked version, the tracks we've heard so far sound amazing!

But there was a song that was removed from all reissues even dating back to the 90s, which is 'Too Dizzy', and has not yet been reinstated. A lot of fans were annoyed about that, despite it being far from a classic.

For me, the revisionism fails to take into account the way that albums like TIMT become a fixture of people's lives, and how certain songs evoke memories of listening to the album back in 1998 or whenever. I certainly have a strong memory of listening to Nobody Loved You for the first time - it was the one track on the album that I really loved on first few listens, and it made me keep going back to the album, trying to find a way to love it - which I eventually did.

If the Manics are so keen to give their ideal version of the album, then I wish they'd do it like the Bowie box sets. Keep one disc as the original album, then another disc as their preferred tracklisting. That way they can tinker to their hearts' content.
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  #212  
Old 20-09-2018, 08:40
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At least it's not as dramtic as John Cale's complete re-recording of Music for A New Society.....
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  #213  
Old 20-09-2018, 10:25
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Originally Posted by Phil C View Post
Er...no, there's no 'clearly' about it. They've written songs about Richey since and never had a problem with playing them live. Why people think they know what the band's thinking is when they've not said anything baffles me. Ocean Spray is about James' mother dying, Hold Me Like A Heaven is about Nick's mother dying, As Holy As The Soil is about friends dying, Cardiff Afterlife and Walk Me To The Bridge refer to Richey...but Nobody Loved You has 'clearly' been dropped because it's about Richey?
Er....there is "clearly" a different connotation to NLY compared to other "Richey" songs. Nobody thinks they know what the band is thinking. It's a forum for discussion. You don't think that NLY is different in being the most open and vulnerable and voyeuristic of the Richey songs? With the line that "nobody loved you like me" when the band have had issues with Richey's family regarding the role of the band in accelerating Richey's issues? You just think it was a random choice in order to get Prologue on there? I think it's up for discussion. And it's fun chatting about it.
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  #214  
Old 20-09-2018, 10:44
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Very, very disappointing that they're doing this.

I hope, at the least, NLY is remastered somewhere else on the album. Otherwise all the other songs will sound great and I'll have the wet '98 mix just for that.

It's put me off picking this up. I didn't get SATT for this reason, and it's probably gonna be the same here.

Not sure when Nicky turned into George Lucas, but it all feels terribly dishonest about the past.
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  #215  
Old 20-09-2018, 10:54
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Originally Posted by Porco View Post
Hmm, you could be right, but I read it as meaning it would only be a demo of NLY, like they did with Underdogs.

"We’ve put [fan favourite B-side] ‘Prologue To History’ on the album now and kicked off ‘Nobody Loved You’. We’ve moved that onto disc two with a great demo that we’ve found."

It's not very clear if he means the original track PLUS a great demo of the same song, or that they've just 'moved' the *song* (as opposed to the original album's recorded version) of NLY AS a demo.

"With" could kind of mean either... and Underdogs is the worrying precedent here. I hope it's the former (album version *plus* demo) and you're right.
My reading of that was an entirely different "Nobody Loved you is on the 2nd disc, in addition to an entirely unheard of demo of another song"
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  #216  
Old 20-09-2018, 10:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil C View Post
Hold Me Like A Heaven is about Nick's mother dying
haven't heard that before
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  #217  
Old 20-09-2018, 10:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
Er....there is "clearly" a different connotation to NLY compared to other "Richey" songs. Nobody thinks they know what the band is thinking. It's a forum for discussion. You don't think that NLY is different in being the most open and vulnerable and voyeuristic of the Richey songs? With the line that "nobody loved you like me" when the band have had issues with Richey's family regarding the role of the band in accelerating Richey's issues? You just think it was a random choice in order to get Prologue on there? I think it's up for discussion. And it's fun chatting about it.
Also, Nicky really disliked performing William's Last Words and there was the whole thing about him threatening to burn the JPFL acetates. There's essentially dropping holy bible songs from the set list for the years after Richey disappeared. Dropping Nobody Loved You is kind of on form for them when you think about it...
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Last edited by Routine Builder; 20-09-2018 at 11:12.
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  #218  
Old 20-09-2018, 11:16
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I think Montana/Autumn/78 would work better in place of Nobody Loved You on the album. Similarly, Welcome to the Deadzone might be a superior song to Underdogs but it made no sense to place it where they did on SATT10. The Masterplan is one of Oasis’s most loved songs but that doesn’t mean Noel ever felt the need to go back and put it on WTSMG in place of that instrumental or She’s Electric. That’s not how albums work.

Anyway, if they have an issue with Nobody Loved You, they’ll need to take William’s Last Words off JFPL next. That’s always been their most problematic use of Richey in a song. I mean, I believe he committed suicide but that didn’t give Nicky the right to twist his words so dramatically and write his suicide note on his behalf as soon as he was declared legally dead.

I’m not surprised if Richey’s family has a problem with Nicky.

But more important than any of that is, they better finally put this out as the double vinyl it always needed to be or there will be trouble.
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  #219  
Old 20-09-2018, 12:12
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Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
the band have had issues with Richey's family regarding the role of the band in accelerating Richey's issues
Source for this statement please? Im just interested.
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  #220  
Old 20-09-2018, 13:59
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To be fair, I think the band, the fans and the family are possessive of Richey's legacy in different ways. It's hard to consolidate Richey the son, the brother, the friend, the tragic rockstar etc. There's always been a slight antagonism between the different groups because of this.

The articles released around the TIMT era probably didn't help. If we're talking about stages of grief, Nicky was very much in the anger stage. It probably didn't help with Nicky airing his feelings in public especially in those NME interviews. Richey's family would have probably preferred to grieve/process in private.

In the years since, Rachel has managed to become the face of Richey's legacy which is probably for the best.

The above is spitballing but deaths in the best of circumstances, creates turbolence in relationships.
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Last edited by Routine Builder; 20-09-2018 at 14:04.
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  #221  
Old 20-09-2018, 14:08
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Originally Posted by Suicide Aldi View Post
Source for this statement please? Im just interested.
Hard to imagine them not having such feelings to a greater or lesser extent. Compare with James "if he came back I don't think he could be in the band again" - people took offence from that but put yourself in their/Richey's shoes...

aaaaanyway, when's this tour then?
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  #222  
Old 20-09-2018, 14:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicide Aldi View Post
Source for this statement please? Im just interested.
I’m at work, but his sister has spoken out in the past.
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  #223  
Old 20-09-2018, 14:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicide Aldi View Post
Source for this statement please? Im just interested.
“Rachel, who still lives in Wales, no longer speaks to the band but the family still get royalties.“

Yes, I know it’s the Mirror, but this is one of those statements.

https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.mirr...r-10239801.amp
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  #224  
Old 20-09-2018, 16:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
“Rachel, who still lives in Wales, no longer speaks to the band but the family still get royalties.“

Yes, I know it’s the Mirror, but this is one of those statements.

https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.mirr...r-10239801.amp
Thanks. I wasmt being funny, just genuinly curious.
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  #225  
Old 20-09-2018, 17:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
“Rachel, who still lives in Wales, no longer speaks to the band but the family still get royalties.“

Yes, I know it’s the Mirror, but this is one of those statements.

https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.mirr...r-10239801.amp
In fairness, none of them live in Blackwood anymore. It could be nothing more than a statement of fact rather than particularly related to what was said by the band. We only tend to hear about the band's family from their respective band member (well, James and Nick anyway). There's plenty of my friends family I don't speak to anymore only just because my friends don't live at home anymore.
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Last edited by Routine Builder; 20-09-2018 at 17:53.
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