Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:02
Manic Street Hippie's Avatar
Manic Street Hippie Manic Street Hippie is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Age: 32
Posts: 400
Not too happy about that...

I seem to remember when SATT came out, and Underdogs played through this site, people not being too happy with being referred to as 'freaks' in the song. At least I think that's right, sorry if I've misremembered it.

So are there any other parts of Manics' songs that you don't feel particularly happy about, i.e. offensive or making you feel awkward?

For me, it's the line 'pointless jobs lead to pointless lives', in an otherwise great song. It just seems a little unfair, that they are three talented and loved musicians, who don't have to work 'pointless jobs' like th erest of us with 'pointless lives'. It just seems a little out of touch to my mind.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:13
UEF's Avatar
UEF UEF is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Posts: 8,027
The end of Cardiff Afterlife, it sounds like a badly cut mp3
The production on Motorcycle Emptiness
__________________
V2002 • Move 2003 • V2006 • London KoKo 2006 • The Culture Show 2007 • Album Chart Show 2007 • XFM 2007 • V2007 • Glastonbury 2007 • London Astoria 2007 • London Brixton 2007 • NME Awards 2008 • NME Big Gig 2008 • Forever Heavenly 2008 • London Roundhouse 2009 • London Forum 2009 • Concert for Care 2009 • XFM Winter Wonderland 2010 • London Brixton Academy 2011 • Blackwood Miners Institute 2011 • Roundhouse 2011 • London O2 2011 • London Rough Trade East 2012 • London Shepherds Bush 2013 • London Brixton 2014 • Glastonbury 2014 • London Rough Trade East 2014 • London Acoustic Guitar Show 2014 • London Roundhouse 2014 • Cardiff Castle 2015 • London On Blackheath 2015 • London Royal Albert Hall 2016 • Swansea Liberty Stadium 2016 • London Wembley Arena 2018 • London Shepherds Bush 2019 (35)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:14
beautifuldistortion's Avatar
beautifuldistortion beautifuldistortion is offline
Knowlede Is Power
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dartford, Kent UK
Posts: 1,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Street Hippie View Post
For me, it's the line 'pointless jobs lead to pointless lives', in an otherwise great song. It just seems a little unfair, that they are three talented and loved musicians, who don't have to work 'pointless jobs' like th erest of us with 'pointless lives'. It just seems a little out of touch to my mind.
This +1

I don't mind the underdogs line, because I am sure it was very well intended and that Nicky no doubt includes himself as a 'freak'.
But yeah the 'pointless jobs' line is a bit much!
Again I understand the sentiment but it is a little heavy handed!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:17
Manic Street Hippie's Avatar
Manic Street Hippie Manic Street Hippie is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Age: 32
Posts: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifuldistortion View Post
This +1

I don't mind the underdogs line, because I am sure it was very well intended and that Nicky no doubt includes himself as a 'freak'.
But yeah the 'pointless jobs' line is a bit much!
Again I understand the sentiment but it is a little heavy handed!
Yeah, I don't mind the 'freak' thing either, but I seem to remember some people being a little offended.

AWMIE Is a good song, it's just that line I don't like.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:19
Industrial Symphony No.1's Avatar
Industrial Symphony No.1 Industrial Symphony No.1 is offline
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Library basement, where all the best books are.
Age: 40
Posts: 2,468
The absurd impotence of SYMM.
__________________
Margate 22-09-98 Wembley 16-12-98 Cardiff 31-12-99 Brixton Academy 30-03-01 Wembley 07-12-02 Brixton 08-12-02 Wembley 09-12-04 Hammersmith 18-04-05 Hammersmith 19-04-05 Kentish Town 29-05-07 Astoria 30-05-07 Shepherd’s Bush 31-05-07 Brighton 06-06-07 Cardiff 06-12-07 Brixton11-12-07 Brixton 12-12-07 Brighton 14-12-07 O2 Arena 28-02-08 Royal Festival Hall 12-09-08 Camden 28-05-09 Camden 29-05-09 Camden 30-05-09 Brighton 02-06-09 Kentish Town 08-06-09 Southend 20-10-10 Bournemouth 22-10-10 Brixton 15-12-10 Brixton 21-01-11 Brixton 22-01-11 Hard Rock Cafe 02-02-11 Wolverhampton 19-05-11 O2 Arena 17-12-11 Shepherd's Bush 24-09-13 Cardiff 29-03-14 Wolverhampton 06-04-14 Brighton 09-04-14 Brixton 11-04-14 Brixton 12-04-14 Rough Trade East 08-07-14 London Olympia 14-09-14
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:24
centralscrutiniser's Avatar
centralscrutiniser centralscrutiniser is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Llareggub
Age: 34
Posts: 3,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Street Hippie View Post
I seem to remember when SATT came out, and Underdogs played through this site, people not being too happy with being referred to as 'freaks' in the song. At least I think that's right, sorry if I've misremembered it.

So are there any other parts of Manics' songs that you don't feel particularly happy about, i.e. offensive or making you feel awkward?

For me, it's the line 'pointless jobs lead to pointless lives', in an otherwise great song. It just seems a little unfair, that they are three talented and loved musicians, who don't have to work 'pointless jobs' like th erest of us with 'pointless lives'. It just seems a little out of touch to my mind.
I see what you're getting at but I took the 'pointless jobs' line to be a criticism of vapid PR type jobs. Not specifically PR but those sorts of things - sort of luvvy, media jobs. Or Health and Safety, litigation type work (from the 'we let it all crumble to preserve our human rights' or whatever the lyric is). I didn't think it was aimed at people struggling to get by. I might have missed something though.
__________________
I may have told you this before, I could have been the King of Wales
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:32
beautifuldistortion's Avatar
beautifuldistortion beautifuldistortion is offline
Knowlede Is Power
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dartford, Kent UK
Posts: 1,081
hmm
I took it to mean nearly ALL jobs, because it say's 'breaking up our bones and breaking up our minds'
It doesn't ruin the song - but it's a bad line!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:46
Dancing Kirby's Avatar
Dancing Kirby Dancing Kirby is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 8,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by centralscrutiniser View Post
I see what you're getting at but I took the 'pointless jobs' line to be a criticism of vapid PR type jobs. Not specifically PR but those sorts of things - sort of luvvy, media jobs. Or Health and Safety, litigation type work (from the 'we let it all crumble to preserve our human rights' or whatever the lyric is). I didn't think it was aimed at people struggling to get by. I might have missed something though.
That's how I see it. Given the entire point of the song, I'm fairly certain that Nicky isn't having a go at factory workers with that line...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:49
mrvitaminpill's Avatar
mrvitaminpill mrvitaminpill is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: East London. Innit.
Age: 33
Posts: 3,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifuldistortion View Post
This +1

I don't mind the underdogs line, because I am sure it was very well intended and that Nicky no doubt includes himself as a 'freak'.
But yeah the 'pointless jobs' line is a bit much!
Again I understand the sentiment but it is a little heavy handed!
Especially when many of 'us' have jobs with are worth far more to society that smashing out a few chords.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:49
Industrial Symphony No.1's Avatar
Industrial Symphony No.1 Industrial Symphony No.1 is offline
A self-made vacuum
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Library basement, where all the best books are.
Age: 40
Posts: 2,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Street Hippie View Post
For me, it's the line 'pointless jobs lead to pointless lives', in an otherwise great song. It just seems a little unfair, that they are three talented and loved musicians, who don't have to work 'pointless jobs' like th erest of us with 'pointless lives'. It just seems a little out of touch to my mind.
It's more Nicky lamenting the decline of industry in this country and a criticism of the kind of jobs that are replacing them. It's like my (Lib Dem) MP writing in the local paper that yes, there will be job losses in public sector work, people with jobs that contribute something worthwhile to the community, but the private sector will offset these losses. What, like having to get a job in the new KFC that's opened in the high street? Oh thanks ever so much, I'm so grateful to you.
__________________
Margate 22-09-98 Wembley 16-12-98 Cardiff 31-12-99 Brixton Academy 30-03-01 Wembley 07-12-02 Brixton 08-12-02 Wembley 09-12-04 Hammersmith 18-04-05 Hammersmith 19-04-05 Kentish Town 29-05-07 Astoria 30-05-07 Shepherd’s Bush 31-05-07 Brighton 06-06-07 Cardiff 06-12-07 Brixton11-12-07 Brixton 12-12-07 Brighton 14-12-07 O2 Arena 28-02-08 Royal Festival Hall 12-09-08 Camden 28-05-09 Camden 29-05-09 Camden 30-05-09 Brighton 02-06-09 Kentish Town 08-06-09 Southend 20-10-10 Bournemouth 22-10-10 Brixton 15-12-10 Brixton 21-01-11 Brixton 22-01-11 Hard Rock Cafe 02-02-11 Wolverhampton 19-05-11 O2 Arena 17-12-11 Shepherd's Bush 24-09-13 Cardiff 29-03-14 Wolverhampton 06-04-14 Brighton 09-04-14 Brixton 11-04-14 Brixton 12-04-14 Rough Trade East 08-07-14 London Olympia 14-09-14
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:50
Porco's Avatar
Porco Porco is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,228
Apologist arguments first.

I never really saw the insult in the Underdogs' 'freaks' at all
- If you don't take it as a friendly term, and/or don't consider yourself a 'freak' then the song is not "one for" you. If you consider it a badge of honour to be a freak (which you can, if you like, take the negative connotations away from, and regard the term as just 'unusual' or any of the things they actually sing - beaten down and crushed, shy and withdrawn, lost, weak, BEAUTIFUL then they wrote a song for you. What's the problem?!

If they described the song as being for the 'losers' but then spent the rest of the song explaining that by losers they mean people who have lost things and they are sympathising for and leaving it to you to decide if you are who they mean I fail to see why anyone would be offended by that either. It's about the context of the song, and the meaning / interpretation of the work 'freak' in relation to the other lyrics I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic Street Hippie View Post
For me, it's the line 'pointless jobs lead to pointless lives', in an otherwise great song. It just seems a little unfair, that they are three talented and loved musicians, who don't have to work 'pointless jobs' like th erest of us with 'pointless lives'. It just seems a little out of touch to my mind.
I think the song is decrying the decline in British manufacturing industries (cadbury's being the example Nicky kept using) and they are perhaps being as critical of their own industry (being part of the Entertainment industry, remember the title of the song, I think it can be literal as well analogous... All we (the band) make is entertainment) - as anyone else's. In this sense I think you can compare it to the "Freaks" stuff actually. If you don't consider your job as pointless, then don't take offence. If you do, perhaps you might agree with what you could choose to take as a sympathetic line in a song about how the job you hate is doing your head in and you wish it was achieving something more useful.

-----

/rant/

In contrast to those things I find the anti-technology sentiment in A Billion Balconies hard to stomach. It's not just that in my view it's lazy and ignorant and narrow-minded, it's hypocritical and comes across (to me at least) as quite elitist and patronising. And just wrong.

The contrast between the arrogance of a line like 'A billion lies becoming the truth' and naming an album something as wonderfully poetic as the quote 'This Is My Truth, Tell Me Yours' is like the difference between a philosopher who has become so enlightened he realises both the humility of his own existence in the universe at the same time as the value of every individual's perception, and a grumpy old man who has just wet himself and blames it on the new-fangled internet. AS HE TWEETS!! IMHO, that isn't a right to contradict yourself, it's a way to look like a luddite numpty. And it annoys me that James has to sing the line, when he just seems to hold his hands up and say 'you know, it's not my thing, computers and all that' whereas Nicky is more like 'well... I know nothing about it... but I have a degree in politics, and therefore must be intelligent enough to spew forth venom on any subject I know nothing about'.

It's made worse by the fact that I love the track musically.

/rant/
__________________
'Those Manics are great mun ent'it!' | Miyazaki-San, Arigato | POPCORN!


"Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter!"
| Porco Tunes: soundcloud.com/fdporco | Newest Track *'Crashed'*[Video]
“...but the pigs are getting into our garden, and just digging holes, looking for truffles or something…"

Last edited by Porco; 22-01-2011 at 10:53.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:56
Dancing Kirby's Avatar
Dancing Kirby Dancing Kirby is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 8,733
And on the subject of Underdogs, I doubt it's the 'freaks' part that caused most offence. For me it was more about Nicky having nothing better to write about than his own fanbase. It felt like a suck up, and this coming after SATT's title track with its refrain of 'send away the tigers because we're lonely and we're desperate'.

It was like one long 'we love you, please buy this album because we're having sleepless nights over Lifeblood'. And then there was Autumsong's 'remember the best times are yet to come'. Wrong!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22-01-2011, 10:57
Porco's Avatar
Porco Porco is offline
Doors slowly closing
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by counterlanguage View Post
Oh and Underdogs - I was only offended by how naff the reference to freaks was. It's just a crap, immature lyric.
But what does that mean?! You were offended by how much you don't like the word and find it immature? But why is it immature? Why is it naff?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Kirby View Post
And on the subject of Underdogs, I doubt it's the 'freaks' part that caused most offence. For me it was more about Nicky having nothing better to write about than his own fanbase. It felt like a suck up, and this coming after SATT's title track with its refrain of 'send away the tigers because we're lonely and we're desperate'.

It was like one long 'we love you, please buy this album because we're having sleepless nights over Lifeblood'. And then there was Autumsong's 'remember the best times are yet to come'. Wrong!
Again, really... ? I mean, you don't have to take it as that. It can be more general if you want it to be. It doesn't have to be about Nicky, the band, Richey or the fanbase all the time. It's very rare it ever specifically is.

But it's all down to interpretation, I know, and that could be a valid riposte to my problem with A Billion Balconies, which does annoy me more because I've read Nicky making comments about what the song is about to him... so I should probably find a way to interpret the lyrics differently for myself if I want to listen to it much.
__________________
'Those Manics are great mun ent'it!' | Miyazaki-San, Arigato | POPCORN!


"Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter!"
| Porco Tunes: soundcloud.com/fdporco | Newest Track *'Crashed'*[Video]
“...but the pigs are getting into our garden, and just digging holes, looking for truffles or something…"

Last edited by Porco; 22-01-2011 at 11:03.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 22-01-2011, 11:06
Midlands_Junk's Avatar
Midlands_Junk Midlands_Junk is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Notts/Yorks
Posts: 4,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porco View Post
/rant/

In contrast to those things I find the anti-technology sentiment in A Billion Balconies hard to stomach. It's not just that in my view it's lazy and ignorant and narrow-minded, it's hypocritical and comes across (to me at least) as quite elitist and patronising. And just wrong.

The contrast between the arrogance of a line like 'A billion lies becoming the truth' and naming an album something as wonderfully poetic as the quote 'This Is My Truth, Tell Me Yours' is like the difference between a philosopher who has become so enlightened he realises both the humility of his own existence in the universe at the same time as the value of every individual's perception, and a grumpy old man who has just wet himself and blames it on the new-fangled internet. AS HE TWEETS!! IMHO, that isn't a right to contradict yourself, it's a way to look like a luddite numpty. And it annoys me that James has to sing the line, when he just seems to hold his hands up and say 'you know, it's not my thing, computers and all that' whereas Nicky is more like 'well... I know nothing about it... but I have a degree in politics, and therefore must be intelligent enough to spew forth venom on any subject I know nothing about'.


/rant/
100 per cent agreed. A dangerous display of ignorance from the Manics there.
__________________

WITH GRACE WE WILL SUFFER
WITH GRACE WE SHALL RECOVER

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22-01-2011, 11:07
beautifuldistortion's Avatar
beautifuldistortion beautifuldistortion is offline
Knowlede Is Power
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dartford, Kent UK
Posts: 1,081
Some good posts and points here.
I think the AWMIE line was misconstrued by myself due to the 'breaking up our bones' part of the line.
Maybe I took it too literally as it seems a dig at more 'manual' jobs.
However taking the song in it's full context it makes more sense!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.