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  #706  
Old 15-03-2019, 20:23
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Velocitygirl Velocitygirl is offline
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I'm surprised to hear that Richey comes off as toxic in the book. I was under the impression the authors, not to mention Rachel, were trying to lionize the man.
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  #707  
Old 15-03-2019, 20:39
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it's more their attempts to lionize him and disparage the band at the same that makes him seem toxic, at least to me anyway.

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I'm surprised to hear that Richey comes off as toxic in the book. I was under the impression the authors, not to mention Rachel, were trying to lionize the man.
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  #708  
Old 15-03-2019, 20:41
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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To be honest, I have always felt Richey would not have been the healthiest person to be around. Reading interviews reminds me of an ex-boyfriend, who was both emotionally abusive and mentally unwell. Alcoholism and self harm are hard to deal with from the outside as well as the inside, and shitty behaviour is shitty behaviour, regardless of the underlying reason. Excusing it as Ďgeniusí or Ďa tortured soulí is to dismiss both the personís struggles and those affected by them.

Iím not going to trawl back through all the comments, but whoever said you dehumanise a person by deamonising or canonising them was spot on.
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  #709  
Old 15-03-2019, 21:46
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
True, but Aunt Mimi raised him so other than a brief period of living with his mum, he grew up in a lower middle class home. Nothing wrong with either men portraying themselves as growing up working class, I just think it’s interesting.
Why wasn't he at home with his mum & dad? I remember him alluding to it once briefly but never really explaining

Why don't I read the damn thing myself? Well, I could say I'm taking the noble stand and going nowhere near it or I could be more truthful and say I literally can't get near a copy. It's either had a very limited distribution or there's still some uncertainty over the pub date as it's only made it to a handful of Waterstones and Amazon saying 1-2 months means they've no copies in stock which is bizarre for the Satan that is Amazon they usually get everything

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For those interested in weird phenomenon, there is a history of black ghost dog sightings in the British Isles, but in Wales especially.

A friend of mine actually saw one when on holiday in Wales. She didn't know anything about the phenomenon so it was particularly interesting when she claimed to have seen a ghost dog.

Who'd have thought the Richey Edwards mystery would lead us closer to unravelling the Black Dog mysteries also? Perhaps 'Black Dog on My Shoulder' should be reconsidered.

The book sounds brilliant.
I love these kind of myths. There are several places I love to go walking rumoured to have barghests...I've yet to see one never mind be bitten by one but still hoping ha....

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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
The parts that really pissed me off though and literally made me gasp when I read the passages, is the gross invasion of his privacy relating to his treatment and what caused him to seek treatment in the first place. He never spoke about that publicly even when asked and he maintained, to the press at least, that it wasn't a suicide attempt so I'm struggling to understand how they could violate his privacy like that even if they believe him to be dead. I really think they crossed all kinds of lines by sharing information about his treatment.
Surprised? I'd be more surprised if that wasn't explored. It must have been hard for his sister to make the decision and that's why in part for all the criticism it's impossible to judge her harshly as she's opening her family up, her brother up but there's nothing to be ashamed of in mental illness so it shouldn't be something that needs to be hidden and his previous suicide attempt is of relevance. Of course when Richey was around and in the band it was up to him and why should he bare his soul or sit and invite judgement and opinion, it's a private matter and it can be something that in one moment you're absolutely set on and in another absolutely not. It shouldn't be something that defines you so I can see why he would have liked privacy but now circumstances are different. I believe the police were told at the time? It's relevant is what I'm trying to say. And his treatment is also of relevance. I feel he, like so many, was let down by the hospitals and the professionals, they still let people down now and...a whole other topic...but it's absolutely relevant

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Ok, this book definitely has some questionable content concerning Jews, but stops just short of blatant antisemitism. She's giving her analysis of the Intense Humming Of Evil and she's colouring it with what reads like statements, but statements I don't remember him ever making in relation to the song or in general. It's not clear if she's referencing his notes or if they're just her interpretations. When did Richey ever argue "against the injustice of certain atrocities being conveniently ignored while other acts of genocide can be referenced when it suits an agenda"? When he and Nicky were being interviewed by Kaitlin Moran in '94, he said the Holocaust was THE most horrific event in world history (I agree and disagree with him on this, but that's beside the point). Those are not the words of someone who believes a certain group (she obviously means Jews) uses their own genocide as a political pawn. It's like this conspiracy theory nutjob has taken lyrics implicitly condemning one of the worst atrocities in history and manipulated their meaning so she can make a statement about the integrity of Jews. She even makes a comparison between Richey's statement about 'Schindler's List' being a dangerous film because it lionizes a war profiteer who exploited Jews, and the completely baseless theory that rich Jews profited from the war while poor Jews went to the gas chambers. This chick is nuts!
This antisemitism thing....again it's not something that should be thrown at anyone without clear evidence it's too important to be used so freely. True, I haven't read the book only your comments but I see no criticism of Jews there. It is true that the holocaust is referenced sometimes too quickly or when it suits an agenda - not by Jews but by governments - to furnish their moral high ground about some conflicts they take a stand against whilst others get ignored because it's not politically convenient. It's always the way. Churchill gets recycled ad nauseum by governments here to 'justify' certain military actions and involvement whilst we turn a blind eye to regimes we consider friends regardless of their appalling disregard of human rights.

I haven't read it though. I do have a suspicion that she can't just let Richey speak but has a need to interpret as if we dear readers may not otherwise understand or may criticise him failing to recognise that her clumsiness is actually resulting in the very thing she wants to avoid.

Personally my own attraction to him and the band was his intellect and his insights. It was all about his lyrics. I'm finding the resulting fallout of this book around antisemitism including the bizarre ideas that Richey donned pyjamas in some crude nod to holocaust victims (not your interpretation Bryter I know I'm just speaking generally now) completely abhorrent and more upsetting than other aspects of this book as it seems to be a complete misreading of all he was and all he believed in.
Sure he was vain, sure in his attitude to relationships he was, well, immature it seems but I don't know if that's quite fair, he was so analytical it seems nothing escaped it not even his relations with others....I can see where the autism ideas may have seeped in to be considered but I'm not sure if that's what lay behind it not really....Sure he had a plan mapped out for the band that...well I've read through interviews with the band could prove a little exasperating...understandably but nothing to justify the denigration they're receiving in this book. His was a rare intellect that could be difficult to put to music but doesn't need the writer of the book to explain nor readers to try and hammer it down ...like a nail...I am sorry....I've had a drink or so on this Friday evening. Stream of consiousness

I should stay away from the book

Which isn't proving hard with its unavailability. Irony

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Originally Posted by Glass Angel
To be honest, I have always felt Richey would not have been the healthiest person to be around. Reading interviews reminds me of an ex-boyfriend, who was both emotionally abusive and mentally unwell. Alcoholism and self harm are hard to deal with from the outside as well as the inside, and shitty behaviour is shitty behaviour, regardless of the underlying reason. Excusing it as ‘genius’ or ‘a tortured soul’ is to dismiss both the person’s struggles and those affected by them
Agree very much
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Last edited by raven; 15-03-2019 at 21:51.
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  #710  
Old 16-03-2019, 11:32
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Wasn't Richey's suicide attempt public knowledge already? Pretty sure Nick or James mentioned it at some point.
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  #711  
Old 16-03-2019, 11:38
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Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
To be honest, I have always felt Richey would not have been the healthiest person to be around. Reading interviews reminds me of an ex-boyfriend, who was both emotionally abusive and mentally unwell. Alcoholism and self harm are hard to deal with from the outside as well as the inside, and shitty behaviour is shitty behaviour, regardless of the underlying reason. Excusing it as Ďgeniusí or Ďa tortured soulí is to dismiss both the personís struggles and those affected by them.
As someone who once might have fit this description, I think it's worth emphasising.
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  #712  
Old 16-03-2019, 14:02
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Bonesy Bonesy is offline
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Wasn't Richey's suicide attempt public knowledge already? Pretty sure Nick or James mentioned it at some point.
there was some ambiguity about it. i thought he did but didn't know the specifics. more importantly i didn't need to know the specifics.
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  #713  
Old 16-03-2019, 14:27
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Not sure what the book says, but I'm pretty sure even the specifics were already out there (perhaps in Everything), I have something in my head about him being found in his flat after a day or two without communication (I won't go into further detail for fear of triggering). I'm not sure how it's discussed in the book mind you, I'm pretty much against pornographic descriptions of self harm.
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  #714  
Old 16-03-2019, 14:59
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This book is so badly written its rediculouse. Have left a scathing review on amazon.
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  #715  
Old 16-03-2019, 17:14
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Bonesy Bonesy is offline
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Not sure what the book says, but I'm pretty sure even the specifics were already out there (perhaps in Everything), I have something in my head about him being found in his flat after a day or two without communication (I won't go into further detail for fear of triggering). I'm not sure how it's discussed in the book mind you, I'm pretty much against pornographic descriptions of self harm.
the book gives the details and the note inside a copy of equus
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  #716  
Old 16-03-2019, 17:23
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Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
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Does anyone have an ePub or mobi copy that they are willing to share?
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  #717  
Old 16-03-2019, 20:07
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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Originally Posted by Bonesy View Post
the book gives the details and the note inside a copy of equus
Thatís horrendous, voyaristic at best.
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  #718  
Old 16-03-2019, 20:14
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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Ah well, I have ordered a used copy so I can join in an enlightened conversation. I will definitely leave a detailed review!
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  #719  
Old 16-03-2019, 22:17
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Originally Posted by Velocitygirl View Post
I'm surprised to hear that Richey comes off as toxic in the book. I was under the impression the authors, not to mention Rachel, were trying to lionize the man.
He comes off as toxic to me (at least in the beginning. Towards the end, it's just really sad), but I don't think the authors intended that. Lol! Tbh, I think they wanted to show him warts and all, but when you're too close to the subject, nothing is challenged and known facts that may not gel with the narrative being pushed, are glossed over or ignored entirely.

Best of luck to his sister with this book and her intentions for it, but if you ask me, they should have left the veil down.

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Why wasn't he at home with his mum & dad? I remember him alluding to it once briefly but never really explaining
Do you mean Lennon or Richey? My memory is dicey on the details about Lennon, but I believe his father abandoned the family when he was a baby and his mother became involved with another man and I don't think her new BF wanted him around so Mimi and her husband took him in and raised him.


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Originally Posted by raven View Post
Surprised? I'd be more surprised if that wasn't explored. It must have been hard for his sister to make the decision and that's why in part for all the criticism it's impossible to judge her harshly as she's opening her family up, her brother up but there's nothing to be ashamed of in mental illness so it shouldn't be something that needs to be hidden and his previous suicide attempt is of relevance. Of course when Richey was around and in the band it was up to him and why should he bare his soul or sit and invite judgement and opinion, it's a private matter and it can be something that in one moment you're absolutely set on and in another absolutely not. It shouldn't be something that defines you so I can see why he would have liked privacy but now circumstances are different. I believe the police were told at the time? It's relevant is what I'm trying to say. And his treatment is also of relevance. I feel he, like so many, was let down by the hospitals and the professionals, they still let people down now and...a whole other topic...but it's absolutely relevant
Obviously not surprised that they discussed it, I'm surprised at how much they divulged. I mean, they don't go into details about what he said in therapy or anything like that, but they spoke with people who observed him in there and his routine. I just don't think something like that should be discussed publicly unless the patient has given permission or was open about it. He limited what he said to the press and kept to the general concerns like how poorly mental healthcare is funded in a public system, dispelling the myths associated with mental illness, etc - but he stopped short of discussing what he personally went through and I think that's important to remember. That being said, this is my personal opinion which clearly not everyone shares. If his sister felt it was the right thing to do then that's her call, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to question why she would.


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Originally Posted by raven View Post
This antisemitism thing....again it's not something that should be thrown at anyone without clear evidence it's too important to be used so freely. True, I haven't read the book only your comments but I see no criticism of Jews there. It is true that the holocaust is referenced sometimes too quickly or when it suits an agenda - not by Jews but by governments - to furnish their moral high ground about some conflicts they take a stand against whilst others get ignored because it's not politically convenient. It's always the way. Churchill gets recycled ad nauseum by governments here to 'justify' certain military actions and involvement whilst we turn a blind eye to regimes we consider friends regardless of their appalling disregard of human rights.
True, but I didn't say it was antisemitic, I said it appeared problematic to me. In hindsight, I shouldn't have written antisemitic at all because you're right about throwing terms like that around. They loose meaning when you apply them to everything you find questionable which just might be the result of a miscommunication or something was taken out of context. In regards to what I wrote though, I just felt really uncomfortable reading her lyrical analysis of 'The Intense Humming Of Evil'. To me, it seemed like she was implying that Richey may not have been sincere with his words or he was deliberately trying to be provocative in a song about the Holocaust. It also wasn't clear if the supporting "evidence" she provided, which I felt was questionable and leading, were her interpretations or if they were based on something he wrote, which pissed me off (this is another reason why the book is a poor read. Half the time I can't tell if they're her ideas or if she's paraphrasing him from the 'archive')! Anyway, it's entirely possible I'm just hyper-sensitive these days to any discussions involving the Holocaust or antisemitic rhetoric/tropes, especially when they come from someone who is clearly into conspiracy theories.

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Originally Posted by raven View Post
Personally my own attraction to him and the band was his intellect and his insights. It was all about his lyrics.
My attraction was the same, but full disclosure, I was 15 and thought he was hot. Kind of still do actually. Lol!

The assumption that Richey wearing those PJs to look like a concentration camp victim is not a new one though. That's been around since the 90s. I don't think he ever disclosed to anyone why he was wearing pajamas and the book doesn't give much insight either. The anecdote about Rob Stringer is pretty much a non-event and I'm not sure why it was included except to show how the big bad record company was treating this suffering genius so appallingly. In fact, Rob Stringer probably fairs the worst in this book. He's really made out to be a money hungry prick.

I think they may have a had a limited stock. You should just get a digital copy.

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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Wasn't Richey's suicide attempt public knowledge already? Pretty sure Nick or James mentioned it at some point.
It was regarded as a rumour, but the book pretty much confirms that the rumour of what went down, was true. As Bonesy said, he left a very brief suicide note in a copy of Equus.

It's interesting to note though that the professionals who examined him said that his wounds were superficial and they believed it was more of a cry for help than an actual attempt.
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  #720  
Old 16-03-2019, 23:37
rosetree rosetree is offline
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
The assumption that Richey wearing those PJs to look like a concentration camp victim is not a new one though. That's been around since the 90s. I don't think he ever disclosed to anyone why he was wearing pajamas and the book doesn't give much insight either.
I'm glad you've said that because I also thought he wore the pyjamas to empathise with victims, though obviously not comparing himself, or rather than try to 'look' like a concentration camp victim. I thought the stripe is also synonymous with prison, as he may have felt caged in himself and his thoughts, which would also contribute in him wanting to leave. I have read that Richey openly told the band and others, about his hospital notes and encounters though. However I suppose it's still an intrusion to disclose such details in the book.

Last edited by rosetree; 17-03-2019 at 00:00.
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