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  #16  
Old 18-07-2009, 22:29
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What exactly are we talking about here? His lyrics? His illness? His media persona?

In terms of lyrics, I think early on, the lyrics were quite teenage, but that was Nicky as well. Not in terms of being mopey, but in all the anger and frustration, and the deliberate attempts to shock. Not that that's a bad thing; it was their fire that made them so good back then.

In terms of illness, obviously there's no way you could call that teenage angst (partly because he wasn't a teenager ).

I think, as has already been said, it's more other people who have given that kind of label. The press will always want to focus on his mental illness and disappearance because it makes a good story. And there will always be teenagers who latch on to the 'tortured genius' idea. Pretty much everyone has a hard time as a teenager, and when they see a beautiful rockstar who's also fucked up, it makes that pain and unhappiness seem glamorous. Obviously, Richey was truly ill, but in the early days he definitely courted the media with his mental illness, just look at the 4REAL picture or some of the others where he's obviously showing off his burns. Of course, it was his choice to show his wounds, but he certainly he played a knowing part in the glamorisation of his illness. Towards the end, when he got very ill, then I doubt he still felt that way, and he looked awful. But people are always going to remember him when he was at his most beautiful, with his bleeding arm displayed on a poster. It's incredibly misguided, but many teens see this as desirable, because it's far more interesting to be actually 'fucked up', rather than just a normal teenager with normal problems. No one wants to believe that the things that seem so important at the time will just be grown out of.

Of course, for all the teenagers that foolishly wish to be on antidepressants, or to have a proper diagnosis so they can officially be worse off than their friends, there are plenty who really are ill, and find comfort in people like Richey. I was one of those people, and although I think sometimes that idealised Richey too much, it was comforting to know that someone else felt the same (and frustrating to know that plenty of people thought his illness was cool). I think the 'teenage angst' tag attached to both Richey and the Manics as a whole really shows when you try to get psychiatric help as a teenager, and mention that you like them. I've been told that perhaps the fact that they're so 'depressing' contributed to my own illness, which was a pile of shit because they were the only thing I had making me happy. I know other people have had this experience as well, and it's a shame, because the last thing you need when you're seriously ill is to be told it's just your age or the music you listen to.
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  #17  
Old 18-07-2009, 22:39
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spot on
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  #18  
Old 18-07-2009, 22:42
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Yeah, I agree with all that also.
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  #19  
Old 18-07-2009, 22:51
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Lydia, you managed to articulate exactly how I feel with regards to the "Richey factor" so well. I'm not able to comment in depth at this moment as I'm out and about, but I did want to write a quick word about how much I appreciated your comments. Bang on, sister!
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  #20  
Old 19-07-2009, 14:10
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i think some of the lyrics are very teenage angst-y.
one of the most obvious examples:

'I write this alone on my bed
Ive poisoned every room in the house
The place is quiet and so alone
Pretend theres something worth waiting for

Theres nothing nice in my head
The adult world took it all away....etc'

These lyrics are shite and very adolescent, it's hard to believe he was, what, 25 or so when he wrote them? they sound like something an 18 year old (or younger) would write.
What makes it even stranger is that the second verse has four really good lines:

'Outside open mouthed crowds
Pass each other as if theyre drugged
Down pale corridors of routine
Where life falls unatoned'

For me that's Richey in a nutshell: part cliched teenage angst, part capable of genuine poetic images....
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  #21  
Old 19-07-2009, 17:54
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Agreed also, that's why I tend to skip that song.
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  #22  
Old 19-07-2009, 18:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydia View Post
It's incredibly misguided, but many teens see this as desirable, because it's far more interesting to be actually 'fucked up', rather than just a normal teenager with normal problems. No one wants to believe that the things that seem so important at the time will just be grown out of.
This is spot on. I've never felt it very strongly but it's definitely there, embarassing as it is to admit. I don't see Richey as glamorous in that way or whatever but idk, just thought you pinned it down really well.

Actually no your whole post is spot on, it's what I'd have wanted to say but I wouldn't be able to do so as articulately.
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  #23  
Old 19-07-2009, 18:15
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Originally Posted by lauren--c View Post
This is spot on. I've never felt it very strongly but it's definitely there, embarassing as it is to admit. I don't see Richey as glamorous in that way or whatever but idk, just thought you pinned it down really well.
It's a shame, but there definitely is that culture around teenagers, not just in idolising people like Richey, but in attitudes to mental illness in general. When I was at school and really starting to become ill, I had a friend who was always trying to out do me, and going on about how 'depressed' she was. It was very frustrating, because I would have much preferred to be well. I 'won' in the end when I went into hospital, and she stopped trying. I don't think that kind of behaviour is unusual, and it's something I hate because when you have mates who call being slightly down because they're rubbish boyfriend is being rubbish, 'depressed', then it really belittles real depression, and the hell it is to live with. But then again, that's not just something you get with teenagers.
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  #24  
Old 19-07-2009, 18:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydia View Post
It's a shame, but there definitely is that culture around teenagers, not just in idolising people like Richey, but in attitudes to mental illness in general. When I was at school and really starting to become ill, I had a friend who was always trying to out do me, and going on about how 'depressed' she was. It was very frustrating, because I would have much preferred to be well. I 'won' in the end when I went into hospital, and she stopped trying. I don't think that kind of behaviour is unusual, and it's something I hate because when you have mates who call being slightly down because they're rubbish boyfriend is being rubbish, 'depressed', then it really belittles real depression, and the hell it is to live with. But then again, that's not just something you get with teenagers.
I think your whole post before pretty much summed it all up. I've noticed similar things too with people around me. Especially with people throwing the words like depression around and talk about suicide casually (I have a mate who always used to say stuff like "If I don't do well on this essay, I'll kill myself" constantly). I always have a go at people who do it nowadays really.
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  #25  
Old 19-07-2009, 18:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydia View Post
What exactly are we talking about here? His lyrics? His illness? His media persona?

In terms of lyrics, I think early on, the lyrics were quite teenage, but that was Nicky as well. Not in terms of being mopey, but in all the anger and frustration, and the deliberate attempts to shock. Not that that's a bad thing; it was their fire that made them so good back then.

In terms of illness, obviously there's no way you could call that teenage angst (partly because he wasn't a teenager ).

I think, as has already been said, it's more other people who have given that kind of label. The press will always want to focus on his mental illness and disappearance because it makes a good story. And there will always be teenagers who latch on to the 'tortured genius' idea. Pretty much everyone has a hard time as a teenager, and when they see a beautiful rockstar who's also fucked up, it makes that pain and unhappiness seem glamorous. Obviously, Richey was truly ill, but in the early days he definitely courted the media with his mental illness, just look at the 4REAL picture or some of the others where he's obviously showing off his burns. Of course, it was his choice to show his wounds, but he certainly he played a knowing part in the glamorisation of his illness. Towards the end, when he got very ill, then I doubt he still felt that way, and he looked awful. But people are always going to remember him when he was at his most beautiful, with his bleeding arm displayed on a poster. It's incredibly misguided, but many teens see this as desirable, because it's far more interesting to be actually 'fucked up', rather than just a normal teenager with normal problems. No one wants to believe that the things that seem so important at the time will just be grown out of.

Of course, for all the teenagers that foolishly wish to be on antidepressants, or to have a proper diagnosis so they can officially be worse off than their friends, there are plenty who really are ill, and find comfort in people like Richey. I was one of those people, and although I think sometimes that idealised Richey too much, it was comforting to know that someone else felt the same (and frustrating to know that plenty of people thought his illness was cool). I think the 'teenage angst' tag attached to both Richey and the Manics as a whole really shows when you try to get psychiatric help as a teenager, and mention that you like them. I've been told that perhaps the fact that they're so 'depressing' contributed to my own illness, which was a pile of shit because they were the only thing I had making me happy. I know other people have had this experience as well, and it's a shame, because the last thing you need when you're seriously ill is to be told it's just your age or the music you listen to.
Amen!
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  #26  
Old 28-12-2009, 23:23
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I have another question for anyone willing to answer, it's been infiltrating my mind for some time!

Why is being a FAN of Richey considered a (usually teenage) phase, like people saying, 'oh, I used to be really CoR', and you know, it just fades once they've stopped being fanatic? I don't agree with that!

[Jumbled wording here, yeah. I'm tired. But I want some insight on that!]
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  #27  
Old 28-12-2009, 23:29
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I have another question for anyone willing to answer, it's been infiltrating my mind for some time!

Why is being a FAN of Richey considered a (usually teenage) phase, like people saying, 'oh, I used to be really CoR', and you know, it just fades once they've stopped being fanatic? I don't agree with that!

[Jumbled wording here, yeah. I'm tired. But I want some insight on that!]
When I was a teenager, I related to a lot of stuff that Richey said especially about relationships etc, and now I'm much older, a lot of that stuff doesn't sit well with the choices I've made in my life. I no longer agree with a lot of his viewpoints, again especially the stuff he said about marriage, speaking as a happily married person, so I guess that's why I sort of drifted away from being such a huge fan of his, in terms of relating to him. That doesn't mean I admire his work any less though. Plus it's hard work being a Richey fan; much more fun to be a Nicky-girl, you know?
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  #28  
Old 28-12-2009, 23:39
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Ah OK. I never agreed with what he said on relationships (was slightly worried about it, from his perspective, though), so I can definitely see where you're coming from with that. In fact, I think I've skipped the 'we're twin souls, we agree on everything' stage right when I became a fan.
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  #29  
Old 29-12-2009, 01:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richian View Post
Why is being a FAN of Richey considered a (usually teenage) phase, like people saying, 'oh, I used to be really CoR', and you know, it just fades once they've stopped being fanatic? I don't agree with that!
I think that it's characteristic of young people - whose own beliefs and opinions aren't fully formed - to become interested in figures like Richey who make strong statements and become followers rather than just fans. They don't just find Richey interesting, they see him as an ideal. That's probably what people mean when they say "I used to be CoR".

I can also attest that musical taste can change as a person gets older, so because their taste was in the Manics when they were a teenager, they might think they've "grown out of the Manics" because their interests have changed and they've moved on to other bands.
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  #30  
Old 29-12-2009, 01:44
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Maybe some of these people need to distinguish 'pretty' from 'ideal' sorry for the misanthropy. But you know there are shallow people out there.
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