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  #31  
Old 12-03-2010, 13:49
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Ben is an author like any other. Maybe he is doing this for the love of his art. I think it's really crass that you'd think this is solely a money making plot because it's going to be sold. It's blatant disrespect to judge a piece of art before you've even seen it. Have you even read anything mr. Myers has produced before? You have no real idea what this will end up like and yet are deriding it before you've even seen an extract.

I'll hold my opinion until the book comes out. I'll read a few pages and then make up my mind. Anyone who writes this completely off as a money making exercise is little different to people who wrote off Journal for Plague Lovers for the same reason.
Well, all those points are fine and dandy - now show me where I said his writing was solely a money making ploy...

I was making a point about you equating appreciation with this novel and saying there was no difference. My derision was for your comment, not Mr Myers book.

I have no preconceived impression of this book, and my only comment regarding it - not your post - was that I had agreed with Elizabeth's misgivings about the use of the photographs in a novel. So save your hand-flapping defence of his art for someone that's actually criticising it.
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2010, 14:27
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Srs bsns fanfiction has always made me uncomfortable. The smutty or lolzy types generally don't bother me (depending on how much they overlap with "serious" stuff), because their only purpose is a bit of fun, and they don't present themselves as trying to approach the truth. But if someone tries to write a fictional interpretation of someone's actual life, especially someone as controversial as Richey, I don't want to see it, whether it's published, or just posted on LJ or this board.
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2010, 14:33
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I can appreciate that some people might find the concept uncomfortable, but having not read the book, as I'm guessing none of us have, I think we should all reserve judgement before jumping on this guy.
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  #34  
Old 12-03-2010, 14:48
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I've read fictionalisations of real lives before and sometimes it can be done really well (Janice Galloway's Clara for instance) but I have serious misgivings about this, especially given that he's not a long dead artists, and his family are still here. That makes me very uncomfortable.
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  #35  
Old 12-03-2010, 15:01
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Well, all those points are fine and dandy - now show me where I said his writing was solely a money making ploy...

I was making a point about you equating appreciation with this novel and saying there was no difference. My derision was for your comment, not Mr Myers book.
But there is very little difference. The only difference is that he's paying paid for it. It could be a piece of fun for him but authors have to make their living as well.

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I have no preconceived impression of this book, and my only comment regarding it - not your post - was that I had agreed with Elizabeth's misgivings about the use of the photographs in a novel. So save your hand-flapping defence of his art for someone that's actually criticising it.
What's wrong with using his picture? The book is about Richey Edwards. It would be more insulting if they tried to dress it up as if it wasn't about him. At least if the book contains utter fallacies his parents will have some sort of basis to sue and protect his name (I'm not sure how much though now that they've declared him dead).

Question Finn, if a fan fiction in the appreciation thread contained pictures would you be against that as well?

I will echo Mrs. C comments but I also think that attitude can impede the making of a factual book. I remember when the author of the last Richey book came on this board looking for information and video's. He was not made very welcome and I do wonder if his book suffered because of that.
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  #36  
Old 12-03-2010, 15:33
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God this will be another 'In The Beginning' you can just tell.

Hopefully this one contains more vivid descriptions of Sean biting his lip after SCOFFING SALT AND VINEGAR CRISPS.
Haha, what a chuckle that book was at times.
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  #37  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:02
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What's wrong with using his picture? The book is about Richey Edwards. It would be more insulting if they tried to dress it up as if it wasn't about him. At least if the book contains utter fallacies his parents will have some sort of basis to sue and protect his name (I'm not sure how much though now that they've declared him dead).
Where did anyone say it was 'insulting' or 'wrong' - it's really tiresome when you feel the need to present people's comments with an over-emotionalism that wasn't there originally. Elizabeth expressed misgivings about how the inclusion of actual photographs crosses the clear line between historical fact and fiction. I said I agreed with those misgivings - I don't think it's 'wrong' or 'insulting' (as your comment clearly seeks to imply that I did.) I am concerned about a lack of clarity, and the perception of what is fiction and what is biography. It's really not a big deal, just a post on a fan forum.

By the way, his family don't have any legal rights - a dead person's reputation no longer qualifies under the rules of libel.

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Question Finn, if a fan fiction in the appreciation thread contained pictures would you be against that as well?
Given that my concern was clarity for the casual reader, then no. I'd assume that something marked fanfiction in a members-only section called appreciation, on a fan forum would be clarity enough to mark the distinction between fantasy and biography. I wouldn't choose to read it, either, though.

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I remember when the author of the last Richey book came on this board looking for information and video's. He was not made very welcome and I do wonder if his book suffered because of that.
I think that you credit the place with too much influence if you really wonder that.

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Haha, what a chuckle that book was at times.
Agreed!
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  #38  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bought In View Post
Ben is an author like any other. Maybe he is doing this for the love of his art. I think it's really crass that you'd think this is solely a money making plot because it's going to be sold. It's blatant disrespect to judge a piece of art before you've even seen it. Have you even read anything mr. Myers has produced before? You have no real idea what this will end up like and yet are deriding it before you've even seen an extract.

I'll hold my opinion until the book comes out. I'll read a few pages and then make up my mind. Anyone who writes this completely off as a money making exercise is little different to people who wrote off Journal for Plague Lovers for the same reason.
I'll take this one...

Maybe Ben is doing it for the love of his art. Maybe the book will be a masterpiece of brilliant writing and fabulous plot. I know he has written about other rock stars in a "from their viewpoint" style, so he clearly has experience. However, those people weren't missing, presumed dead. Those people had a story with a known ending. I'm sorry, but I don't actually like the idea of anyone writing Richey's story "through his eyes" because nobody, even the band, really, knew what the hell he was thinking and certainly no one knows what became of him. I can't help but feel it's slightly disrespectful. Yes, it's a work of fiction and should be taken as such, but with Richey's face on the cover... I'm sorry, but I just don't like the idea.

And for the record, fan fiction doesn't interest me at all, so I rarely venture into appreciation.
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  #39  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:17
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A number of people on here ended up admitting that Rob's book wasn't really that bad, and it wasn't in many ways, the ground had just been covered before.

I think it's natural to have reservations, particuarly if you feel a connection or are very interested in a certain person, but I think that accusations that this is "sick" are unwarranted.
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  #40  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:19
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Originally Posted by Finn View Post

I think that you credit the place with too much influence if you really wonder that.
Well it's the best depository for everything manic. If you're looking for an article, picture, interview or video this is the best port of call. Members here can be extremely helpful in suppling those things in most cases.

Can you tell me of a better place to get these things?
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  #41  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:20
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I think it's natural to have reservations, particuarly if you feel a connection or are very interested in a certain person, but I think that accusations that this is "sick" are unwarranted.
I that's probably the most even-handed position to take.
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  #42  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:22
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Originally Posted by mrsmanics View Post
I'll take this one...

Maybe Ben is doing it for the love of his art. Maybe the book will be a masterpiece of brilliant writing and fabulous plot. I know he has written about other rock stars in a "from their viewpoint" style, so he clearly has experience. However, those people weren't missing, presumed dead. Those people had a story with a known ending. I'm sorry, but I don't actually like the idea of anyone writing Richey's story "through his eyes" because nobody, even the band, really, knew what the hell he was thinking and certainly no one knows what became of him. I can't help but feel it's slightly disrespectful. Yes, it's a work of fiction and should be taken as such, but with Richey's face on the cover... I'm sorry, but I just don't like the idea.

And for the record, fan fiction doesn't interest me at all, so I rarely venture into appreciation.
This.

I wouldn't be surprised if the book ended like Lilya 4ever with Richey kicking a fucking Burger King wrapper around the clouds in Heaven.
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  #43  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:23
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Don't think there's that much wrong with writing a novel based on someone's life, or even using photographs of the person on which it's based, though I can't see this being a masterpiece. I don't really know what fanfiction is, and I'm not sure I want to.
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  #44  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:29
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I got a response from Ben today - it was Picador, his publisher, who chose to use a picture of Richey on the book jacket, by the way, something which he initially had reservations about, though he does like what they've done with the design (so do I, for that matter he didn't have a larger version on hand though, I suppose Picador might be my next stop to try to track this one down). He said he's tried to stick to facts and to capture the eras in the UK that the book is set in as best (and also as sensitively) as he can while still very much exercising artistic license. He strikes me as an intelligent and interesting fellow, now I'm more curious than ever to read this!

Also, on the subject of fanfiction since it's being brought up here, I've put about 35,000 words of Manics fic out there myself so I feel inclined to defend it a little. Mine aren't really -srs bsns-, though I do see fanfiction as a 'transformative work' (which "takes something extant and turns it into something with a new purpose, sensibility, or mode of expression") and think it can be a wholly legitimate form of literature if the author writes well and comes up with clever scenarios and accurate characterization - which can be tough to find in the realm of fanfic as it is an 'amateur author' dominated form of writing, but with a bit of digging, there is good stuff out there!

Last edited by MarilynRoxie; 12-03-2010 at 16:37.
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  #45  
Old 12-03-2010, 16:33
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Originally Posted by Bought In View Post
Well it's the best depository for everything manic. If you're looking for an article, picture, interview or video this is the best port of call. Members here can be extremely helpful in suppling those things in most cases.

Can you tell me of a better place to get these things?
Again your answering a comment that wasn't made. I didn't suggest that there was a better place, I said that you give the site to much credit if you really "wonder if his book suffered" because of his reception on a fanforum. A good researcher is more than capable of finding information without needing to be spoonfed, so fan response shouldn't make any difference.
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