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  #1  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:15
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y2kyle16 y2kyle16 is offline
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An over reliance on backing musicians?

Hi all,

Bear with me on this as its thought out.....

I've seen the band recently at Wembley and at Jools Holland too.. also seen tv appearances at the biggest weekend.

Is it just me or is there a big over reliance on the 3 "non members" of the band. By this I mean Wayne was basically playing the main guitar parts for quite a few songs, whilst JDB's guitar was not being used as he had both hands on the mic....

Is it a case of laziness by the band? do they truly believe they sound better as a 6 piece? or has the passion for what they do gone?
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  #2  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:27
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Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
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I think the argument about "filling out the sound" is probably a fair one.

But the fact that JDB is playing less guitar is a very sad development for me. His playing is so particular to the Manics sound that it makes a HUGE difference to me as a fan.

That's why the 2014 Rough Trade gig, or The Holy Bible 3 piece stuff is so good - because he plays everything.

My Manics fandom is centred around the songwriting and the guitar playing and I really, really don't like it.
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  #3  
Old 06-06-2018, 13:46
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The recent radio x session as a three piece proves they can still do it.
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Old 06-06-2018, 15:36
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They always sounded better with one guitar, a bit of shitty keyboard in the background and bass.

It's too easy now.

Quote:
My Manics fandom is centred around the songwriting and the guitar playing and I really, really don't like it.
I think this nails it.
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  #5  
Old 06-06-2018, 16:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
I think the argument about "filling out the sound" is probably a fair one.

But the fact that JDB is playing less guitar is a very sad development for me. His playing is so particular to the Manics sound that it makes a HUGE difference to me as a fan.

That's why the 2014 Rough Trade gig, or The Holy Bible 3 piece stuff is so good - because he plays everything.

My Manics fandom is centred around the songwriting and the guitar playing and I really, really don't like it.
The "filling out the sound" argument would hold water if that's what they were doing. I don't know if you saw the band on their recent tour, but on it, the session guys aren't there to 'fill out the sound' anymore, they're there to do the bulk of the music, with James occasionally turning his guitar up to contribute a few chords or a bit of lead.
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Old 06-06-2018, 16:34
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To play devil’s advocate:

- They’re getting older.
- They played a lot for the RIF tour/campaign
- Some of the arrangements for RIF songs they played were physically impossible to play live as a 3- or even 4-piece.
- Variety.

Saying all that I agree there’s something special about when it's just the 3 of them and JDB is singing and playing all the guitar parts possible.
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  #7  
Old 06-06-2018, 16:38
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
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But then again Manics fans have always had a massive cob-on for any additional musicians they've had. They're always committing atrocities like being too loud (despite not mixing their own levels), visibly enjoying themselves too much, having a haircut too much like Richey, sounding like a "fairground organ", being too near the front, etc.

They clearly resisted having an additional guitarist for many years until they felt they could comfortably avoid a shitstorm and it wouldn't be taken as 'replacing Richey' (although I bet there were a handful who got a little bit upset anyway), ludicrous as that may seem. In terms of guitars, well there are nearly always layers of guitar parts on Manics songs from all eras. If I was JDB and had created those arrangements myself and had to struggle to sing in addition to pulling them off as well, for years, I'd certainly want some backup in order to pull off something resembling the sound they were shooting for, you know, like normal bands are allowed to do. In terms of keyboards, well there are keyboards all over most of the Manics output, due to decisions made by the Manics themselves, which is another reason why I don't subscribe to the idea that they sound better as a three-piece - simply because far too many key songs would sound empty without them.

Is three guitarists a bit much? Probably. Presumably it's an attempt to utilise the trumpet player's presence throughout the set. Can't say I'm especially bothered though.

James taking his hands off the guitar during verses, when he never used to - why is this so difficult to accept? Him not doing some rhythm guitar? Genuine question.
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Old 06-06-2018, 16:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post
James taking his hands off the guitar during verses, where he never used to - why is this so difficult to accept? Genuine question.
This is a nice image and a great question.

I am a fan who plays a lot of guitar and loves the Manics for the songwriting and guitar playing most of all.

I guess when JDB takes his hands off the guitar and either holds it up (not a fan of that) or puts one or two hands on the mic (not a fan of that either), it's a sign of letting go of something. Letting go of the music, if that makes sense. It's almost crooning your own songs while some backing band is playing them. I think there is a disconnect there and there is something lost.
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  #9  
Old 06-06-2018, 17:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porco View Post
- Some of the arrangements for RIF songs they played were physically impossible to play live as a 3- or even 4-piece.
.

Which beggars belief considering how empty Hold Me like a Heaven sounds even with a backing track to boot.
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Old 06-06-2018, 17:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post
But then again Manics fans have always had a massive cob-on for any additional musicians they've had. They're always committing atrocities like sounding like a "fairground organ".
I have no idea where people are getting that impression from....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIG4uu1zhas
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  #11  
Old 06-06-2018, 17:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post

James taking his hands off the guitar during verses, when he never used to - why is this so difficult to accept? Him not doing some rhythm guitar? Genuine question.
Because some people don't want to go to a Manics gig to listen to Wayne Murray play the guitar for Design for Life. It takes the energy out of the performance. It's like a cyborg replacing biological elements with (inferior) robotics, eventually a bit of the humanity is lost. If it's not a problem for some people, that's fine.
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2018, 19:56
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
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I'm worried where this may lead to. If we're not careful, by next tour JDB may end up merely pointing to a guitar on a stick for ADFL
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2018, 20:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTMA View Post
I'm worried where this may lead to. If we're not careful, by next tour JDB may end up merely pointing to a guitar on a stick for ADFL
Well it's pretty much already happened to another British three piece guitar band....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=moMruGnwR1U

Shudder....
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2018, 11:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Because some people don't want to go to a Manics gig to listen to Wayne Murray play the guitar for Design for Life.
Absolutely this.

In 22 years of being a Manics fan I think the most disappointing moment was seeing Wayne play the intro to NSAF in Belfast. Awful.
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2018, 13:57
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Yes, I was shocked to see that as well. But did you notice that the idea of not playing the No Surface Niro was so alien to JDB that he inadvertently played over the top of Wayne then apologised! What is happening!?
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