Are You A Richey James Romantic Or A Nicky Wire Socialist?

[cloudburst]

An article about Nicky and Richey you may wanna read and give opinions on.

http://www.misformusic.com/2010/08/a...ire-socialist/

[gladstone]

To be honest, I've never heard of anyone loving the Nicky stuff and hating the Richey stuff.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by gladstone

To be honest, I've never heard of anyone loving the Nicky stuff and hating the Richey stuff.

I prefer the Nicky stuff over the Richey stuff and wouldn't feel immensely melancholy if the first three albums belonged to a whole different band or weren't there in the first place (despite my love for the albums).

So it's not exactly hate but still...

Regarding the article itself, this paragraph hit me in the eye:

Nicky Wire is a self confessed socialist. He is at his best in angry political anthems such as ‘ifwhiteamericatoldthetruthforonedayitsworldwouldf allapart’ and ‘Design for Life’, and at his worst in preachy, unsubtle radio friendly hits such as ‘Masses Against the Classes’ and ‘If You Tolerate This, Then Your Children Will Be Next’.

I'd say Nicky is at his very worst in 'angry' political anthems because in them he is actually preachy and unsubtle, unlike the likes of say Tolerate which while political never makes a big number of it and as a result works so much better. Generally he fares better when introspective and personal, rather than trying to give us a clunky politics lesson.

But y'know, at the end of the day the article is the opinion of a singular person and this is mine.

[Slideling]

Originally Posted by gladstone

To be honest, I've never heard of anyone loving the Nicky stuff and hating the Richey stuff.

Hi.

I obviously don't hate the Richey stuff (!), but I think his writing sounds a bit stuck up in comparison to Nicky's.

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender

I remember Wire claiming responsibility

For This Is Yesterday (), not She Is Suffering. And for most of it, not all of the lyric. He certainly said at one gig they wrote it together.

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender

Indeed! When did he ever profess to being one anyway?

While he seems to not quite define himself along these lines, one can make an argument from him writing a song called Socialist Serenade.

[Deets]

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender

No it's not! Unless you're counting editing down Richey's lyrics (I'm sure James had a significant role in that as well), Wire's contribution to Faster consisted of providing the title. Faster is a 100% Richey lyric.

Over the years its become clear who wrote what on THB however, SIS is probably the only one that still remains a mystery. I remember Wire claiming responsibility, but they read like Richey lyrics to me.

it's definitely Richey's, I remember one Nicky's interview when asked who is 'She' he said he has no idea as it was Richey's thing. on the other hand I remember Richey's interview where he said that 'She' is 'desire'.

Richey's writing was more full of slogans, I mean, perfect to the FB/Twitter status, full of outside references. and Nicky's things are more complicated, I would say more based on the thoughts, you know, the conclusions etc. and also on feelings. if you read Blueprints For Exile, you'll see how great poet Nicky is.

[Slideling]

Originally Posted by Deets

if you read Blueprints For Exile, you'll see how great poet Nicky is.

I don't think I have. What/Where?

[Deets]

Originally Posted by Richian

I don't think I have. What/Where?

his poems on the Nicky's Secret Society website that is no longer available.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2IMCAK07
packed in zip (or rar, I don't remember)

I really like In-Between Old and When, they're great words.

[thebookworm]

I think they both had an equal number of good and bad lyrics.

But ultimately Nicky is the one who is still alive, middle aged and living a good cushy life now, therefore lackign the same pain and frustration as richey long ago.

We have 15 years of Nicky lyrics to cringe over, and only 5 years of Richey.

I never thought anything bad of TIMTTMY's lyrics. I think pieces like Tsunami and Ready for Drowning were ace, and the former is still one of my favourite songs.

Richey writes the words of a man with no reason to care about his life or reputation. Nicky has always had a reason to care about his life (he's been married since 1993, so he must have cared about her if nothing else).

Nicky Wire is actually more entertaining as a person, if almost ridiculous. whereas when you look at a lot of clips of Richey, either your heart breaks or you want to slap him in the face.

[Embla Claymore]

I don't know what this person is basing his/her argument on.
If it's his/her opinion, fair enough, but I don't think it involves all Manics fans.

[manicspain]

Im an unconditional manic fan but I think the richye lyrics are very superior than all that nicky can make

[sonicshake]

I just think that James generally writes his best music when he's working with either Richey's lyrics or an Edwards/Wire lyric. Obviously there are exceptions to this (Design For Life, Roses In The Hospital, Tsunami etc), but it seems to me that Richey's dense and complicated writing style brings out a quality in the music that Nicky's lyrics just don't. I personally thought that 'Journal For Plague Lovers' was the best thing they'd done musically since 'Everything Must Go' and that that music could never have been made with 13 Wire lyrics.

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by sonicshake

I just think that James generally writes his best music when he's working with either Richey's lyrics or an Edwards/Wire lyric. Obviously there are exceptions to this (Design For Life, Roses In The Hospital, Tsunami etc), but it seems to me that Richey's dense and complicated writing style brings out a quality in the music that Nicky's lyrics just don't. I personally thought that 'Journal For Plague Lovers' was the best thing they'd done musically since 'Everything Must Go' and that that music could never have been made with 13 Wire lyrics.

True. I could sign that. The Manics best are Bradifield/Edwards's compositions. Unfortunately it's turned to be Wire/Wire lately which doesn't impress me.
JFPL (especially the deluxe booklet) showed well how great Richey's lyrics were. He made it look so easy to write a song...

[starstruck]

Masses Against The Classes was radio friendly?

it's an interesting article, and i get the perspective it comes from. there were no doubt die hard fans who balked at what happened to the band after Richey went missing and an apparent "change of direction" came in. Bowie springs to mind - after the 70s triumphs and the devastating Cat People soundtrack, many Bowiephiles were horrified when he decided he wanted to be a really, really big pop star with Let's Dance. i would suggest, though, that this mysterious faction of hardcore Manics loyalists didn't balk at EMG; surely if they were that hardcore it would have been around GATS they bailed - wasn't the intention of the band to do one album and split?

qualified with "in my opinion", i think the continued success of the Manics has been the fact that they have been blessed with two amazing lyric writers. i wouldn't say one is better than the other, and i am sure all would agree both have written some terrible things. they have a different approach and yet not all that radically different a vision. Nicky could not write something like Faster just as Richey probably couldn't have delivered something like If You Tolerate This. it doesn't stop either being amongst the greatest songs of the band, and doesn't reflect badly on the other.

this could well turn out to be all academic. when the follow up to PFAYM comes out, featuring the credit "all lyrics by Sean Moore", fans will scratch their heads wondering why they ever bothered tolerating Richey or Nickys comparatively weaker lyrics in the first place.

[Deets]

1. haha Masses radio friendly?
2. Nicky wrote whole Ifwhiteamerica? I have read that he brought the title, I mean put the words together but I've never heard it's his.
3. HE MADE A MISTAKE IN AUTUMNSONG LYRICS!!!!! 'the best times are yet to come'
4. From Despair To Where - he mistakenly writes James instead of Richey, which might suggest that James is JDB not RJE
5. Ford Mondeo is disguisting.

[starstruck]

Originally Posted by Deets

12. Nicky wrote whole Ifwhiteamerica? I have read that he brought the title, I mean put the words together but I've never heard it's his.

i raised an eyebrow at that - my understanding is that Nicky's main (only) contribution to THB was limited to This Is Yesterday?