JFPL in GIITTV's top twenty albums of 09

[Chocolate Kettle]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

Disagree that the lyrics are cheesy.

They're sweet lyrics. But when I got the album witht the artwork I was shocked at just how much had been whittled out. Tzb is right, the song was completely re-written.

[Dancing Kirby]

Originally Posted by allofwho

Totally agree with the "overtly sentimental mess" description - that's what made me dislike the song so much, the lyrics are cheesy, for lack of a better word. I'm hoping/assuming that this is a result of poor editing choices and not what Richey had intended when he wrote this.

I liked the song before I saw the unedited lyrics, but I could no longer listen to it in the same way when it became obvious what Nicky had done.

The taking 'you're the best friends I ever had' line out of context and turning it into his own self-gratification is the bit I cringe at most. If he'd not used that one line, I might have been able to view his mawkish edit more charitably.

It's like Nicky decided to invent a parallel world where Richey gave a shit about his friends or his family when he [whatever]. Unless there's a suicide or leaving note that we don't know about, I'd contest that he didn't give any of them much thought. Not that I want to come across as someone who holds selfishness against those who can't go on with life.

And in a way, the sentimentality isn't something that Nicky should be ashamed of. It's a peaceful note to end on, it's the romantic view that those closest to Richey perhaps deserve. It's just not *cough* 4 REAL.

[Mr Richey]

I love JFPL. I can take or leave WLW.

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by The Gutless Wonder

Disagree that the lyrics are cheesy.

agreed. It's a beautiful song. Sentimental maybe but why the hell not?

the editing on JFPL isn't that big a deal. They've always done it..we've no idea how songs started out. Wasn't design for life two pages long originally? I bet there'd be a number moaning that the song had been hacked to death if they'd seen the long version.

[tzb]

We've no idea how other songs started out, no - but no other songs were edited as farewell notes to "the best friends I ever had". We do know this one was completely twisted to be a tribute to the very people who were editing it, which reading the original copy it quite obviously wasn't.

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by tzb

I really don't see this. Musically it has more in common with the EMG b-sides than anything they did in the last decade, lyrically it's a Richey song completely hacked to bits and virtually rewritten (to fit a conventional song structure - unlike what Richey actually wrote - and certainly given an entirely new significance) by Nicky... I can't think of a less fitting way to end the album to be honest. To me it represents everything they'd set out to avoid in the project; a mawkish, plodding and overtly sentimental mess spelling out a farewell note Richey never left.

Yep! Couldn't have expressed it better myself! A disapointing editing job from Nicky and despite his protestations that it was unintentionally meant to come across as somekind of "suicide note", I suspect that's exactly the effect he was going for. He's not a fool; he knew his interpretation of those lyrics would make a dramatic impact especially as the closing song. Personally, I think the unedited lyrics are quite interesting - not particularly representative of Edwards' best work, but certainly very different to anything he had written previously. It would have been nice to see the Manics tackle that tune without hacking it to pieces lyrically, but I guess I can sort of see why they needed to break it down - it's a bit wordy - I just don't understand why the context was completely screwed over for whatever reason. Not one of Nicky's better moments, I'm afraid.

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by tzb

We've no idea how other songs started out, no - but no other songs were edited as farewell notes to "the best friends I ever had". We do know this one was completely twisted to be a tribute to the very people who were editing it, which reading the original copy it quite obviously wasn't.

well maybe they just wish he'd left a note? I don't see whats so wrong with that. Anyway..reading it..considering how cryptic richey could be it might well have been what he meant. Who knows? I like that the idea that its a goodbye note. Don't find it twisted at all.

[tzb]

What's wrong with cutting his words into a context where he's telling them he loves them but is "going to sleep"? You really don't see how irresponsible/egotistical that is? Or how far from the actual lyrics that interpretation is? Who knows, you say. Why would they "know" this is what he meant from those lyrics? It's pretty fucking presumptuous to have assumed that's what he meant!

You can wish for something without hacking something completely different to give that meaning, then publishing it as "his lyrics".

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by tzb

What's wrong with cutting his words into a context where he's telling them he loves them but is "going to sleep"? You really don't see how irresponsible/egotistical that is? Or how far from the actual lyrics that interpretation is? Who knows, you say. Why would they "know" this is what he meant from those lyrics? It's pretty fucking presumptuous to have assumed that's what he meant!

You can wish for something without hacking something completely different to give that meaning, then publishing it as "his lyrics".

no they don't *know* ..they just made the decision to use the line that way and considering they knew richey i think they're best placed to decide what's appropriate ..not us.
They're just song lyrics anyway..they didn't publish words from a private diary or anything like that. I don't buy all this *oooh richey's sacred words we must not defile* business.

[tzb]

Who is saying that? I have no problem with them editing his words to fit songs, or to follow a consistent thread (as they did on the rest of the record), I just don't see any of the context they edited into WLW in the original text. That strikes me as pretty shameful considering the context they actually did go with. And I'm clearly not the only one.

And they couldn't be worse placed to decide a general song about a general situation was actually a secret farewell note to us!

[Mr Richey]

Originally Posted by tzb

Who is saying that? I have no problem with them editing his words to fit songs

And rightly so. If they didn't have that policy, 'Faster' would never have seen the light of day!

[tzb]

Quite. All the best Manics songs he wrote were supposedly edited massively. I've never encountered anyone who has a problem with that.

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by tzb

Who is saying that? I have no problem with them editing his words to fit songs, or to follow a consistent thread (as they did on the rest of the record), I just don't see any of the context they edited into WLW in the original text. That strikes me as pretty shameful considering the context they actually did go with. And I'm clearly not the only one.

I like the song and the way it turned out. I don't find it shameful at all. Even if i'm the only manics fan in the world that thinks so. I do get your point..the full text is different..i just don't think the final edit was a mistake... sorry

[Bryter Layter]

Originally Posted by hummingbird

I don't buy all this *oooh richey's sacred words we must not defile* business.

No no, I don't think the majority of fans believe that at all! Not even the most die-hard Richeyphile would ever dare to question Wire or JDB's need to edit down his lyrics in the past. The boy was admittedly incapable of self-editing his own work...he simply went on and on in the same fashion as when he spoke. However, although I've not seen unedited versions of his lyrics prior to JFPL, I'd venture a guess that the edits made were only done to shorten the lyrics in order to fit them into the confines of a 2-3 minute song, but the meaning/context stayed virtually the same as they do for all the remaining JFPL lyrics. I think that's the problem many have with WLW as it was recorded. Having seen the original, untouched words, the final product doesn't have the same meaning or sentiment. I mean, it really doesn't...it's fairly obvious.

Anyway, if you dig the tune as is, that's cool! Everyone gets something different from art so all the power to you! I'm sure you aren't alone in that regard.

[hummingbird]

Originally Posted by TheGreatPretender

. Having seen the original, untouched words, the final product doesn't have the same meaning or sentiment. I mean, it really doesn't...it's fairly obvious.

I know. I did say that above. My take is that its not that big a deal. Just my oh so very humble opinion

*shrugs*