The "Know Your Enemy" Appreciation Thread - Forever Delayed

Son of Stopped · #1 24-04-2010, 19:30

To counter the myth that "Know Your Enemy" damaged the Manics? Here's a thread to celebrate the 2001 (eventual) masterpiece! Maybe 9 years is the right amount of years to grow to love it? I can still listen to it in full. It's unfair it's blamed as the album that reduced their sound to "Rubble and shit"?
I think the "rubble and shit" years were the greatest hits, Lipstick Traces, and then an attempt to do something different (which even then was brilliant) and then jump back to the Past,Present,Future rock band?

I'd still have preferred the two albums "Solidarity" and "Door To The River" (Is this what they were going to be called?) but at least we got Know Your Enemy rather than nothing at all?
It might be different for newer fans who've only heard the album this year, but I see it as the last Manics album to get away with things they wouldn't get away with now. Not just Miss Europa Disco Dancer and Wattsville Blues, but the whole thirst to "try something different" seems to now appear indulgent and it would be hard to imagine another band doing an album like this today? So there's that to also marvel at!

That said, "Intravenous Agnostic" should have been the joint single with "So Why So Sad" and although the album had strong b-sides, the basic lyrics of "Pedestal" wouldn't have sounded as good next to "The Convalescent", "The Year Of Purification" (That was another missed REM-type single) and "His Last Painting".

Plus the album was responsible for my greatest FD moment (bearing in mind, someone might have done this before?) http://www.foreverdelayed.org.uk/for...37&postcount=1

So I will always love Know Your Enemy and if you are putting it off buying it due to people badmouthing it?... They are wrong! And even if I'm not right, I'll still think this is one of their best albums? It doesn't deserve to be "The Last Manics Album To Sell In A Second Hand Shop"?
Break ranks KYE fans and rejoice! (Or merge with any other positive KYE threads...)

The Gutless Wonder · #2 24-04-2010, 19:38

I LOVE KNOW YOUR ENEMY!!!!!!

tzb · #3 24-04-2010, 19:38

you'll forgive my jaw for remaining a couple of inches above the floor?

SWSS, Ocean Spray and Robeson were terrible single choices. Imagine something like a Intravenous Agnostic/Dead Martyrs split single to launch the album? And The Convalescent would have been a weird but utterly great single choice. His Last Painting is also horribly underrated imo.

I think it's very easy to make a brilliant 12-track album from it, especially if you add the better b-sides. Plenty of good songs, but a massive failure as an album.

The Gutless Wonder · #4 24-04-2010, 19:41

I was happy with the single choices so ner-de-ner!

tzb · #5 24-04-2010, 19:43

You were happy with something the Manics did?

The Gutless Wonder · #6 24-04-2010, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzb

You were happy with something the Manics did?

Yeah! Shocking isn't it?

Son of Stopped · #7 24-04-2010, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzb

you'll forgive my jaw for remaining a couple of inches above the floor?

SWSS, Ocean Spray and Robeson were terrible single choices. Imagine something like a Intravenous Agnostic/Dead Martyrs split single to launch the album? And The Convalescent would have been a weird but utterly great single choice. His Last Painting is also horribly underrated imo.

I think it's very easy to make a brilliant 12-track album from it, especially if you add the better b-sides. Plenty of good songs, but a massive failure as an album.

Well I can still something in it's failings? I'm trying to explain them better, but if this is going to go down in history as the bands's biggest failure, then even at their worst decision making there's still not enough here for me to write the whole album off? See, you might say there's not enough here to make you put the album on repeat? You might prefer the time capsules in the band's other albums? I'm still loving this one. I'm tempted to reclaim my KYE cover avatar!

The Gutless Wonder · #8 24-04-2010, 19:53

I haven't listened to it for a bit so must get it out again!

franny · #9 25-04-2010, 14:25

I love KYE but agree about the single choices. Epicentre, Ocean Spray and Intravenous Agnostic would have been better. Intravenous Agnostic is also the Manics song that 7 out of 10 times I would say is their best musically.

Tom · #10 25-04-2010, 14:29

Shockingly bad.

Son of Stopped · #11 25-04-2010, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Shockingly bad.

Even if it isn't as good as I say it is, it's nowhere near as bad as that?

tzb · #12 25-04-2010, 14:36

If I played it to someone who didn't know the band and hadn't heard it, I think that's what they'd say. If they were feeling generous/polite.

franny · #13 25-04-2010, 14:38

I think they'd quite like it, there's nothing wrong with it as an album, people dislike it because it's not as good as their other stuff.

Tom · #14 25-04-2010, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzb

If I played it to someone who didn't know the band and hadn't heard it, I think that's what they'd say. If they were feeling generous/polite.

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. When you listen to a band as much as people on here listen to the Manics you stop judging it as you would any other band. I can listen to KYE and it sounds pretty good in parts, but only because I've played it so much in an attempt to get into it. I do think it's possible to force yourself to like albums just by playing them a hell of a lot, and plenty of Manics fans do it, even if that sounds a bit patronising.

tzb · #15 25-04-2010, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by franny

I think they'd quite like it, there's nothing wrong with it as an album, people dislike it because it's not as good as their other stuff.

Not true. There's lots wrong with it as an album and it's still lots better than some of their other stuff.

How is there nothing wrong with it? It's the most schizophrenic jumbled mess of an album I own. Almost half the tracks are utter shite. The pacing and track ordering seems almost as though they actively set out to remove and sense of flow between tracks, styles, or give the album any meaning. They may well have done as well with their comments around the time, but I think there's a much higher chance they just ran out of (good) ideas and stuck any old crap on the record, putting quantity over quality and then attempting to make it some half-arsed statement with the title. If they genuinely meant it, why did they immediately go on to release a greatest hits, then come back with their poppiest album? And then their most mainstream one following that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

I can listen to KYE and it sounds pretty good in parts, but only because I've played it so much in an attempt to get into it. I do think it's possible to force yourself to like albums just by playing them a hell of a lot, and plenty of Manics fans do it, even if that sounds a bit patronising.

Agreed. I did the same.