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  #16  
Old 30-01-2006, 23:20
anhedonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Jones
but do prostitutes actually claim it's their first time? who'd believe them?

i've never taken it to mean "virgin" literally, just as, "anyone who says they're pure and untouched/corrupted is a liar".
Im not an expert on the subject i would imagine some do claim it's their first time, especially maybe in countries where girls are prosituted at such a young age.

I guess the point is that a 'dumb cunt' would believe them- if you ask a dumb question ('virgin?') expect a dumb answer ('yes')!
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  #17  
Old 30-01-2006, 23:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anhedonia
Im not an expert on the subject i would imagine some do claim it's their first time, especially maybe in countries where girls are prosituted at such a young age.

I guess the point is that a 'dumb cunt' would believe them- if you ask a dumb question ('virgin?') expect a dumb answer ('yes')!
I like this explanation very much as well!

See why that line is so brilliant? It works on SO many levels!!
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  #18  
Old 31-01-2006, 00:03
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It is I think as Guernica says, the pimp's response. But I wouldn't say the song was about prostitutes or it is but metaphorically, if that's the word, everything's for sale and anything and anyone can be whatever you want them to be for a price until we're all reduced ultimately, driven by desire for power or reduced to nothing, desireless but empty, not happy.

I'm wandering off course now, for the 'she' in she is suffering is desire or beauty/desire and the Buddhist philosophy is erm basically speaking that if you rid yourself of desire you can find ultimate happiness, nirvana. I could be going off track, it's late and my mind wanders about.
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  #19  
Old 31-01-2006, 11:15
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I'd temporarily forgotten how much I love poring over Manics lyrics and reading other people's ideas. Good thread!
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2006, 12:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estuary_girl
No I don't like it either, because not everyone is corrupted or out for themselves. I guess that illustrates a mentally ill person
On the other hand, no one's is stainless, I think it can be a strong point to say we all fall short of some ideals.

To me this song is about not feeling like you have a voice or control of your life and that pain is a vicious cycle whether you're giving it to yourself or to others, it's a violent metaphore, not just a "sexual" one. But that's in general, I can say that line is hardly my favourite, because it comes off as cheap and tacky I guess, I haven't given it a second thought since I've heard it.

Don't know what he'd meant though, I'm only speaking for myself. I only get the "honey" part, because I want to believe he'd used that word a lot.

Last edited by Slideling; 03-02-2006 at 12:13.
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2006, 13:12
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Didn't that actual quote come from a conversation Richey had with Caffy St Luce (?)
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2006, 13:38
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"Self disgust is self-obsession, honey"-?
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2006, 20:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estuary_girl
What does this lyrical quote mean to you? What do you think Richey meant?
The people who are virgins pretend they're not, and then suddenly after they lose their virginity they often pretend they haven't. Nothing more than that really. So, if you say you're a virgin, you're probably a liar, and if you are a virgin you're probably a liar.
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2006, 22:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bambi
I'd temporarily forgotten how much I love poring over Manics lyrics and reading other people's ideas. Good thread!
Yeah physco analysing everything
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  #25  
Old 04-02-2006, 01:00
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Or did he mean that metaphorically everybody's been fucked by somebody?
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  #26  
Old 04-02-2006, 11:27
anhedonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisBeTheVerse
Or did he mean that metaphorically everybody's been fucked by somebody?
Damn good thought...
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  #27  
Old 04-02-2006, 11:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisBeTheVerse
Or did he mean that metaphorically everybody's been fucked by somebody?
I guess you have to put it into the context of the song.

Having visited Auschwitz I guess that would kinda summarise the metaphorical side of the quote. In the sense there is nothing pure in this world and the hideous concept being "ethnic cleansing" I wouldn't call it cleansing that's for sure.

The way at uni .. people behaved around him. The gigantic sperm thing

Maybe he felt let down by Nick when he got married .. later on .. who knows?
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  #28  
Old 04-02-2006, 13:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil C
The people who are virgins pretend they're not, and then suddenly after they lose their virginity they often pretend they haven't. Nothing more than that really. So, if you say you're a virgin, you're probably a liar, and if you are a virgin you're probably a liar.
It's very cynical isn't it. For sale? Of course, everything's for sale. Virgin? Nothing and no one is pure/innocent/honest, everything's corrupt, everyone's a liar so I don't know why I'm afraid nor even why I do this, there's no pleasure from it and the money brings nothing of what it promises neither.
We're all invisible, to ourselves, to others, some seeking power over and pleasure from others who have neither and are made incapable of ever experiencing either.

Not one to listen to after a bad day.
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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
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  #29  
Old 04-02-2006, 13:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by another invented username
On the other hand, it could be the male claiming virginity, which is more likely.
In which case, did Richey mean himself?

[It was my first association, don't take me seriously, I can't care less. ]
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  #30  
Old 04-02-2006, 13:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffuselah
In which case, did Richey mean himself?

[It was my first association, don't take me seriously, I can't care less. ]
Well, Richey did say he didn't lose his virginity until well into his twenties, the ****ing little liar!
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