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  #736  
Old Yesterday, 07:12
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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So... my copy has arrived. First thoughts on flicking through - I wasn’t expecting most of the ‘archive’ to be school essays from 1981. Chosen because of ‘ominous ‘ references to the Severn Bridge. You know, the famous bridge that links Wales and England, and which looms pretty large in the imagination of anyone who lives around the Cardiff area...
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  #737  
Old Yesterday, 18:39
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Originally Posted by raven View Post
Hmmmn I still think he knew he wasn't at all bad looking He wasn't averse to the camera But that's not the same as feeling you're worthy of love, the surface is only superficial in many ways. And, I don't know, but so much of his behaviours seemed to be about self control, he might dismiss the not eating as not wanting to put on weight whilst he was drinking so much, doing stupid numbers of press ups etc...it's not vanity that though is it, it's gone way beyond it's a form of self control, trying to reach some sort of ideal....you'll never reach.
I have wondered if being nicknamed Teddy as a kid helped....I'm not saying that's the root cause or assigning blame but just when/if as a child you're made aware of your appearance especially at or around the same time you start to be aware that appearance matters (yep I know it really doesn't but Society doesn't agree....) it can get in your head and take root. Not that that alone would explain everything....or we'd all be in serious trouble ha...but lots of things can come together, tangle up, coincide, get fixed in your head...
He was vain in short but not because he thought he was God's gift to erm fans or something....not that that was entirely about vanity when it opens you up to the kind of people who would offer a set of knives as a gift...how degrading is that. He should have told them to go fuck themselves.

I do think many of us would be much better if we could only learn to say No more often and to say go fuck yourself not quite as often but have that in reserve... and say it loud.....
Yeah, I don't know. All his friends and stuff seem to think it had something to do with him having acne for most of his teen years, but I'm sure there was a lot more to it than just skin issues. It usually is with these kinds of body issues and self hate. The Teddy Edwards thing is interesting though. I'm not British so I don't really know where the reference comes from, but maybe it did have an impact on him at a formative age.

I'm sure he did know that young girls found him attractive and he played that up for his own gain. I'm not excusing that kind of behaviour, just noting that given his negative body image, he may have gotten a boost to his ego from seeing how much these people wanted to be with him. It's also probably a power thing too. I'm sure that plays into it as well because it usually does. Not surprisingly though, the book only mentions groupies a few times and both instances are extremely dismissive (tbh, I'm shocked they were mentioned at all! Lol!). There's also no mention of the young teenage fans he used although she does reference them as groupies (again vague and dismissive) before beginning another tiresome interpretation of one of the songs on THB, this time 'Yes". Speaking of his contact with teenagers, IMO, the most disturbing thing in the book isn't the subtle and sometimes blatant slagging off the band gets, its actually the attempt to normalize and romanticize a relationship between a man in his 20s and a teenage girl he met when she was 15/16. They even go so far as to say, he wanted a relationship so he "kept her on the periphery" when she was 17 (oh! How nice of him! Lol!). I just hope this woman didn't waste her teen years refusing to date other people and just sitting by the phone waiting for him to call or write her a letter. Basically just waiting for him to make up his mind about dating her meanwhile he's sleeping with other people. I mean, I get why they had to include his relationship with her and it's pretty clear that this may have been the only type of romantic relationship he was able to have (it reads like the most significant time they spent in each other's company was for 2 weeks in the fall of '94), but the way the author's have positioned it seems grossly out of touch with what's going on today given the contempt people have for men in positions of power that have and continue to take advantage of vulnerable teens. As a fan, this is the side of Richey I've always found very difficult to reconcile with.

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Originally Posted by rosetree View Post
I didn't suggest they were making the band feel responsible for Richey's illness. There were some suggestion about criticising the band about Richey's health in the book? manifesting the problems, though he suffered before joining the band. I read the msppedia articles from 1995, which shed light in interviews, questions and differences from the time.
Oh sorry, it read like you were saying that the author's blamed the band for his issues. No, they don't criticize the band over Richey's health. There's some suggestion that they may have alienated him starting around the time of the Thailand trip, but who's to say he didn't isolate himself from them? I didn't get the sense that the authors or Rachel believed they could have done more for him or anything like that or that his time in the band compounded his problems which was actually surprising to me. Others may have gotten a different impression though. As far as I can tell, the bulk of the issues concerning the band and Richey seem to stem from the belief that he was the leader of the Manics who got them noticed (he 100% did! I don't think anyone least of all the remaining guys would say otherwise), but they grew tired of his "vision" and were starting to pull away from him after THB was recorded and this alienation and desire to move away from their formulaic sound, thus pushing him even further down the ranks, became more apparent after THB was released and was a commercial flop. How much of that is fact or just down to Richey feeling slighted because he was going thorough a psychological crisis, depends on what you choose to believe.

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Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
So... my copy has arrived. First thoughts on flicking through - I wasn’t expecting most of the ‘archive’ to be school essays from 1981. Chosen because of ‘ominous ‘ references to the Severn Bridge. You know, the famous bridge that links Wales and England, and which looms pretty large in the imagination of anyone who lives around the Cardiff area...
Yep! The "archive" is a massive let down. The letters and pics are great though. And yes, the book is leading and pushing the author's theories left right and centre! Wait unitl you see how many references they make to good old Aunt Bessie. Lol!

Last edited by Bryter Layter; Yesterday at 19:43.
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  #738  
Old Yesterday, 19:09
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handbag handbag is offline
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Richey's drawing of Ace Garp in 2000 AD wasn't the first prize winner of "a nationwide competition". It was that issue's chosen readers art. Not to be picky, but these inaccuracies really do no favours if we're supposed to believe everything written in the book when they're biggin' Richey up as a grand prize winner when he wasn't. (Cute drawing, though!)
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  #739  
Old Yesterday, 20:14
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Originally Posted by handbag View Post
Richey's drawing of Ace Garp in 2000 AD wasn't the first prize winner of "a nationwide competition". It was that issue's chosen readers art. Not to be picky, but these inaccuracies really do no favours if we're supposed to believe everything written in the book when they're biggin' Richey up as a grand prize winner when he wasn't. (Cute drawing, though!)
Thanks! I wouldn't have known either way. I noticed a few glaring inaccuracies relating to the band, one in particular involved stating, several times in fact and by various people not involved with the band in any capacity, that the '4 REAL' incident was what got them signed. That's an assumption not a fact. The '4 REAL' incident happened a week before they signed and you can't make a deal like that in a week! An agreement has to go through many channels, including negotiations and legal, before the final contract is issued. That's just common sense!

Last edited by Bryter Layter; Yesterday at 20:49.
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  #740  
Old Yesterday, 23:17
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raven raven is offline
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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
Yeah, I don't know. All his friends and stuff seem to think it had something to do with him having acne for most of his teen years, but I'm sure there was a lot more to it than just skin issues. It usually is with these kinds of body issues and self hate. The Teddy Edwards thing is interesting though. I'm not British so I don't really know where the reference comes from, but maybe it did have an impact on him at a formative age.
Teddy's a nickname for Edward. And having a google there was a kids TV programme here through the 70s about a Teddy Edwards (before my time but I remember a drunk Nicky saying it was cos he looked liked a teddy bear. Cute and cuddly is I'm sure the reason why but you might read chubby in that....though it wasn't the intention or not in any negative sense anyway I'm sure. I'm not sure how old he was at the time but I know names even with the sweetest intentions can play on your mind but he really may have been too young at the time.
Acne would explain a lot I feel. The only reference he ever made was in Faster I think? But, well, it can be more than just a skin issue.....it gets shrugged off as a 'teenage thing' as if it's something everyone goes through but it's more than that, much more and can lead to some serious self hatred. It never gets talked about unlike anorexia say which felt like it was a fashion at one point with regards to the amount of press interest, there's something glamorous in the image of wasting away supermodel waiflike (I know that's far from the reality) but it's seen as more glam than it's twin bulimia and certainly more attractive than acne which isn't perceived as remotely attractive or tragic but it can destroy your self esteem and of course it's happening to you right through the time when everyone around you is becoming aware of appearance and you're starting to realise you're judged on how attractive you are compared to the next person. And kids don't hold back. It can do serious harm to your self image and it's hard to leave that behind even when it does.....which can be a few years.
It sounds silly but in a way you don't, or I should say I don't, see these things as affecting boys as much as they're not really held up and judged on their appearance in the way girls are. But maybe that's actually part of the problem.



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Originally Posted by Bryter Layter View Post
I'm sure he did know that young girls found him attractive and he played that up for his own gain. I'm not excusing that kind of behaviour, just noting that given his negative body image, he may have gotten a boost to his ego from seeing how much these people wanted to be with him. It's also probably a power thing too. I'm sure that plays into it as well because it usually does. Not surprisingly though, the book only mentions groupies a few times and both instances are extremely dismissive (tbh, I'm shocked they were mentioned at all! Lol!). There's also no mention of the young teenage fans he used although she does reference them as groupies (again vague and dismissive) before beginning another tiresome interpretation of one of the songs on THB, this time 'Yes". Speaking of his contact with teenagers, IMO, the most disturbing thing in the book isn't the subtle and sometimes blatant slagging off the band gets, its actually the attempt to normalize and romanticize a relationship between a man in his 20s and a teenage girl he met when she was 15/16. They even go so far as to say, he wanted a relationship so he "kept her on the periphery" when she was 17 (oh! How nice of him! Lol!). I just hope this woman didn't waste her teen years refusing to date other people and just sitting by the phone waiting for him to call or write her a letter. Basically just waiting for him to make up his mind about dating her meanwhile he's sleeping with other people. I mean, I get why they had to include his relationship with her and it's pretty clear that this may have been the only type of romantic relationship he was able to have (it reads like the most significant time they spent in each other's company was for 2 weeks in the fall of '94), but the way the author's have positioned it seems grossly out of touch with what's going on today given the contempt people have for men in positions of power that have and continue to take advantage of vulnerable teens. As a fan, this is the side of Richey I've always found very difficult to reconcile with.
Well, I know he did talk about groupies and could be dismissive, bordering on sexist may as well say and definitely sexist and wrong with regards to seeking out a prostitute like a Western arrogant tourist idiot in Thailand but that said as far as I'm aware there was never any suggestion that he was interested in young girls beyond some malicious shit stirring with absolute no foundation. I hear what you're saying about Jo. Even 19 is young to 27.....not wrong of course not but quite a gap at that age. That said it didn't seem unequal if that makes sense, he seems to have found someone he could talk to on an equal level, she didn't sound naive and I'm not entirely sure she was a big fan of the band? That was a rumour too though so could be rubbish but what I mean is she wasn't necessarily easily swayed by his status, wasn't a besotted fan (just swayed by his Bambi eyes?)
I'm not even sure the attention boosted his ego. I know I said he was vain but you can be obsessed with appearance whilst impervious to flattery. It can be hard though I understand to distinguish between vulnerabilty and attention seeking. Are they a user or being used. It's possibly not always black and white but he was vulnerable that seems self evident. I find it upsetting that he'd use the knives given to him by a fan to cut himself, that anyone would do that to him and that he'd use them, all self esteem long gone
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