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  #31  
Old 24-05-2013, 16:06
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darkanddivine darkanddivine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookUK View Post
This is why it's so hard to comprehensively review the Manics discography in this way - because we just don't know that much about any of the recording sessions, whereas Ian MacDonald had a lot of information to work with on the Beatles.
I think part of this is probably down to the lack of musical flexibility in terms of the Manics and their demoing process. The songs that yielded the most interesting sounds have for the most part been covered in depth such as Tolerate.

Almost every single "demo" that is revealed is virtually identical to the final track, which is not a bad thing, just indicative of a band with a chief songwriter and one who quickly moves towards a finished structure. I've always felt that this "4 take" rule they applied to themselves during the KYE sessions is in actual fact, the way they do pretty much everything. Even the "first plays" of the EMG songs are only a tweak away from the arrangements on the final record. Either that or they still value the magic in the creation process, and that is why for example we haven't heard any of the 20 alternate versions of Faster for example, because in all likelihood they probably suck compared to the beast that is the final song.

Those factors combined with the fact that there are so many other intriguing aspects to the band I think make the kind of in depth discussion of the songs, writing and how they are composed and arranged fairly difficult. I can think of other bands who have experimented much more with their music and as such this type of study could be done, but they might not be as interesting as people or have such depth to lyrics etc.

I do still however very much enjoy reading these in depth "from a distance" reviews as they can shed new light or give a new face to content that is way past its sell by date.
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Last edited by darkanddivine; 24-05-2013 at 16:10.
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  #32  
Old 24-05-2013, 18:32
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Those are really good points, darkanddivine. It is remarkable how similar a lot of the demos are to the finished versions, and in fact even some "re-recordings" of songs barely change at all (like 'UK Channel Boredom' becoming 'Vision of Dead Desire'). It seems to be especially true of the more recent demos, like the ones from the last two albums - although sometimes it's a thrill to hear one instrument replaced with another or some subtle difference in inflection from JDB. Where the opportunity has arisen, I've pointed out some of those exciting differences (I love the Marcus demo of 'Natwest...', largely because of the really evil guitar tone) but there's not a whole lot to work with.

Obviously that leaves you with the songs themselves, as they stand, as the main thing to look at. The most interesting thing I've "discovered" in this process (it was new to me, anyway) is how 'Dead Passive' seems to me to be an attack of sorts on Kate Moss and Johnny Depp, accusing them of being less-than-sincere in their participation in the 1995 War Child charity compilation.
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  #33  
Old 24-05-2013, 20:12
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MarilynRoxie MarilynRoxie is offline
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RookUK - This is a great site! I love seeing newer Manics projects like this that have such passion, it makes me want to re-listen to the Manics discography all over again.
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  #34  
Old 24-05-2013, 21:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
A COMPETITOR. Although my blog kinda ran out of steam as soon as I hit the modern Manics tracks and the songs started lacking the years of reflection and time I've had with most of their discography.

(this just reminds me that I really need to update mine at some point)
didn't know about your blog. Its now on my bookmark bar along with RookUK's. Play nicely now
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  #35  
Old 24-05-2013, 21:54
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Originally Posted by AK47 View Post
I really love this kind of thing. I hope one day the manics release a comprehensive book of their songs, processes, etc. Excellent work.
this is what Nicky should do for his second book instead of an autobiography.

Wouldn't mind a published lyric book either or a combination of the two maybe. They're always banging on about how important their lyrics are. I know they always include them with the albums but it'll be nice to have a book with the whole lot in with pics of the singles and album covers and explanations as to why they chose the cover art etc.

edit: sorry for double posting..can't be arsed combining the two posts
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  #36  
Old 25-05-2013, 19:29
roi roi is offline
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Nice to see analysis of less highly regarded songs, those at the tail end of This Is My Truth especially.

Regarding the piece about Of Walking Abortion, I always assumed "wash your car in your X baseball shoes" was a reference to the Malcolm X promotional merchandise that was popular around 1993. Maybe not, I dunno.
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  #37  
Old 25-05-2013, 19:36
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Thank you RookUK. Your site is in my favourite's list now.
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  #38  
Old 25-05-2013, 21:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roi View Post
Nice to see analysis of less highly regarded songs, those at the tail end of This Is My Truth especially.

Regarding the piece about Of Walking Abortion, I always assumed "wash your car in your X baseball shoes" was a reference to the Malcolm X promotional merchandise that was popular around 1993. Maybe not, I dunno.
I've not heard that theory before roi - do you know of any examples of this? I'm assuming you mean promotional merchandise for the Malcolm X film?
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  #39  
Old 25-05-2013, 22:41
roi roi is offline
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Originally Posted by RookUK View Post
I've not heard that theory before roi - do you know of any examples of this? I'm assuming you mean promotional merchandise for the Malcolm X film?
Yes, X baseball caps, jackets etc promoting the Spike Lee film were popular in about 1992/93. Found an article about it here: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20167669,00.html

"Along with the ubiquitous ''X'' caps, T-shirts, and jackets, the products will reportedly include posters, key chains, wristwatches, buttons, drinking mugs, and refrigerator magnets."

There's no way that combination of politics and commercialisation would have escaped the Manics attention in the early 90s.

Last edited by roi; 25-05-2013 at 22:47.
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  #40  
Old 25-05-2013, 22:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roi View Post
Yes, X baseball caps, jackets etc promoting the Spike Lee film were popular in about 1992/93. Found an article about it here: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20167669,00.html

"Along with the ubiquitous ''X'' caps, T-shirts, and jackets, the products will reportedly include posters, key chains, wristwatches, buttons, drinking mugs, and refrigerator magnets."

There's no way that combination of politics and commercialisation would have escaped the Manics attention in the early 90s.
Wow, that is excellent! I had no idea that any of that went on. I'll amend my post with a link to this and a credit to you - thanks a lot!
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  #41  
Old 26-05-2013, 12:26
roi roi is offline
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Originally Posted by RookUK View Post
Wow, that is excellent! I had no idea that any of that went on. I'll amend my post with a link to this and a credit to you - thanks a lot!
Thanks! Just looked at that article again and realised that the whole 90s Malcolm X thing fits in with the Manics selling out/mass/communication ethos 100%:

''Malcolm X would probably support anything that tended to carry his message further. If his exposure on key chains and posters made his name and his thought more accessible to the world''

They MUST have mentioned this in an interview at some point.
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  #42  
Old 30-05-2013, 20:36
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I've been toying with the idea of doing something like this (but I'd probably abandon it on Blurty when I got bored), so my geeky side is definitely going to enjoy reading through this.

Edit: Definitely agree with I'm Not Working. That one was a slow burner for me, but now I absolutely love it. Pretty unique, very atmospheric number.

Last edited by Scarecrow; 30-05-2013 at 21:06.
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  #43  
Old 30-05-2013, 23:09
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Originally Posted by NasalScarecrow View Post
I've been toying with the idea of doing something like this (but I'd probably abandon it on Blurty when I got bored), so my geeky side is definitely going to enjoy reading through this.

Edit: Definitely agree with I'm Not Working. That one was a slow burner for me, but now I absolutely love it. Pretty unique, very atmospheric number.
Always glad to come across another 'I'm Not Working' fan! It's always been a big favourite of mine. If I seek out a particular Manics song to listen to and really live inside for a few minutes, it's very often this song. There's something so beautifully, perfectly despairing about it.
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  #44  
Old 30-05-2013, 23:12
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Yep, count me in for the I'm Not Working love, was a definite grower. Brilliantly atmospheric track.
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  #45  
Old 31-05-2013, 17:16
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dora dora is offline
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Originally Posted by RookUK View Post
Hey everyone, I'm Andy, author of the site. As I just told responsible by email, I've been lurking on Forever Delayed on and off for a few years, so it's great to see that you guys have been having a look at the site (I've had more views today than I've ever had, so thanks so much).
I've been a fan only since 2011, and after having acquainted myself with most of MSP discography at random by now, I have recently decided it's time to give their releases a chronological and in-depth listen. From the look of it, your site will be of great help in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
A COMPETITOR. Although my blog kinda ran out of steam as soon as I hit the modern Manics tracks and the songs started lacking the years of reflection and time I've had with most of their discography.

(this just reminds me that I really need to update mine at some point)
Your blog should be essential for every Manics fan. Hope you'll find the steam to continue writing.
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