Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum  

Go Back   Forever Delayed - The Independent Manics Forum > Manic Street Preachers > Manic Street Preachers Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #511  
Old 17-05-2021, 07:25
blackflower's Avatar
blackflower blackflower is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Age: 49
Posts: 1,656
Caved in and ordered the deluxe CD and T shirt bundle. Not signed, but I'm hoping there'll be a Rough Trade gig where I can get a different format signed in person.

Loving Orwellian and its themes. I'm interested to hear some people complaining about the 'centrist' nature of the lyrics. For me, the most Orwellian aspects of modern society are coming from the left - book burnings, cancel culture, deplatforming, policing of language etc. And I say this as a life long Labour voter, until very recently. So I couldn't see how they could have approached the topic from anything but a centre-leaning perspective. If anything, I might have expected more vitriol towards the left for abandoning the principles of freedom of speech and expression.

Last edited by blackflower; 17-05-2021 at 11:23. Reason: grammar!
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 17-05-2021, 09:21
LA ex's Avatar
LA ex LA ex is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,563
I still think James is actually singing "The future fucks the past" despite the lyrics saying it's fights.
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 17-05-2021, 11:43
beautifuldistortion's Avatar
beautifuldistortion beautifuldistortion is offline
Knowlede Is Power
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dartford, Kent UK
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackflower View Post
Caved in and ordered the deluxe CD and T shirt bundle. Not signed, but I'm hoping there'll be a Rough Trade gig where I can get a different format signed in person.

Loving Orwellian and its themes. I'm interested to hear some people complaining about the 'centrist' nature of the lyrics. For me, the most Orwellian aspects of modern society are coming from the left - book burnings, cancel culture, deplatforming, policing of language etc. And I say this as a life long Labour voter, until very recently. So I couldn't see how they could have approached the topic from anything but a centre-leaning perspective. If anything, I might have expected more vitriol towards the left for abandoning the principles of freedom of speech and expression.
This is a brilliant post.
Agree with it all.

I should think that the choosing sides line was more about UK politics than USA.
James and Nicky have made no secret of the fact they have been disillusioned with Labour for a few years now.
And without getting too political it's quite easy to see why.
At the moment we are still allowed to change allegiances or have doubts about your party's decisions or lack of direction.
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 17-05-2021, 12:51
revcheese revcheese is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Age: 29
Posts: 133
The song is okay but feels like a continuation of RiF. Have to say that naming a song 'Orwellian' is incredibly cringeworthy and on the nose, given how overwrought and meaningless the term has become.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackflower View Post
Caved in and ordered the deluxe CD and T shirt bundle. Not signed, but I'm hoping there'll be a Rough Trade gig where I can get a different format signed in person.

Loving Orwellian and its themes. I'm interested to hear some people complaining about the 'centrist' nature of the lyrics. For me, the most Orwellian aspects of modern society are coming from the left - book burnings, cancel culture, deplatforming, policing of language etc. And I say this as a life long Labour voter, until very recently. So I couldn't see how they could have approached the topic from anything but a centre-leaning perspective. If anything, I might have expected more vitriol towards the left for abandoning the principles of freedom of speech and expression.
Can you elaborate on this? Whose book has been 'burned'? Who has truly been cancelled? Add to the fact that the left do not have political power in the UK and haven't for over 4 decades - it's a mystery as to why you think it's the left who are most at fault here.
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 17-05-2021, 13:17
blackflower's Avatar
blackflower blackflower is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Age: 49
Posts: 1,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by revcheese View Post
Can you elaborate on this? Whose book has been 'burned'? Who has truly been cancelled? Add to the fact that the left do not have political power in the UK and haven't for over 4 decades - it's a mystery as to why you think it's the left who are most at fault here.
People were burning JK Rowling's books last year because they disagreed with her essay on women's rights.
Maya Forstater and Sasha White have lost their jobs for expressing similar opinions.
The podcasters at Triggernometry were kicked out of their studio for criticising aspects of the BLM organisation.
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying of the Dark Horse podcast were subjected to horrific mob behaviour and lost their university professor jobs because they refused to leave campus when ordered to by some of the students.


These are just some examples of people who lost livelihoods or faced threats because they expressed opinions that go against current leftist thinking. Whether you agree with their opinions or not, they should have the right to express them without facing death threats or losing their jobs. But the left is no longer the side that protects freedom of speech.
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 17-05-2021, 13:34
Europa Gluten Free's Avatar
Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,451
Still listening to this song over and over again today in the car and at home. Realising I much prefer this side of the Manics compared to the International Blue / Motorcycle Emptiness typical guitar riffing stuff. (For this week anyhow!!!) But really looking forward to the album now. Digging the name. Digging the artwork. Think this could be another Lifeblood-esque winter album - for me anyhow.
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 17-05-2021, 14:50
FacelessSenseOfVoid's Avatar
FacelessSenseOfVoid FacelessSenseOfVoid is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sheffield/Birmingham
Age: 43
Posts: 6,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
Still listening to this song over and over again today in the car and at home. Realising I much prefer this side of the Manics compared to the International Blue / Motorcycle Emptiness typical guitar riffing stuff. (For this week anyhow!!!) But really looking forward to the album now. Digging the name. Digging the artwork. Think this could be another Lifeblood-esque winter album - for me anyhow.
I'm probably in a minority in that I love International Blue (more than ME) but actually prefer a Lifeblood style album all round.

Orwellian seems to be more of an extension of James' solo work with an Eringa/Manics production but clearly it's more piano driven and the melody and delivery of the song mirrors material on EIE.

The chord sequence as the song approaches the chorus is brilliant - it's mainly C to G for most of the verse but then it goes from to Dm to Am, pretty standard stuff and then a B chord, which sounds jarring but really works and then to Bb and into the chorus.

I have very high hopes for the album and from judging by the samples on the trailer, I think it has the potential to be better than RIF.
__________________
23/08/01 CIA, 06/04/05 Civic Hall, 24/05/06 Camden Barfly, 11/10/06 Birmingham Barfly, 12/05/07 Cardiff Uni, 21/05/07 Civic Hall, 27/05/07 Manchester Apollo, 02/06/07 Colston Hall, 09/06/07 Reading Hexagon, 08/12/07 Birmingham NIA, 12/12/07 Brixton Academy, 28/02/08 O2 Arena, 30/05/09 Roundhouse, 12/10/10 Derby Assembly Rooms, 14/12/10 Birmingham O2 Academy, 19/05/11 Civic Hall, 17/12/11 O2 Arena, 06/11/12 Rough Trade, 13/09/13 Newport Centre, 23/09/13 Colston Hall, 27/09/13 Manchester Ritz, 29/03/14 Cardiff Motorpoint, 31/03/14 Leicester De Montfort, 06/04/14 Civic Hall, 08/07/14 Rough Trade, 14/05/16 Genting Arena, 09/07/17 Llangollen, 06/10/17 Drama Studio, 16/03/18 Absolute Radio, 14/04/18 Rough Trade, 27/04/18 Birmingham Arena, 05/05/18 Cardiff Motorpoint

Twitter: @KhizzyJ
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 17-05-2021, 15:41
Marat Sar's Avatar
Marat Sar Marat Sar is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by usagainstyou View Post
What do you mean? Orwell is timeless.
It's, as someone said here, a little cringeworthy they down and right called a song "Orwellian" without adding anything to it or subverting it in any way. The mental acrobatics I employ to get around it -- and to liking what is a super melodic and sparkling manics single that I like -- is as follows: the 70s ABBA piano riff and "cutting edge in the seventies" Orwellian society critique are aesthetically compatible and thus show a certain self awareness. This conceptually enriches the idea enough for me to enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 17-05-2021, 15:45
centralscrutiniser's Avatar
centralscrutiniser centralscrutiniser is offline
I live to fall asleep
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Llareggub
Age: 38
Posts: 3,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackflower View Post
People were burning JK Rowling's books last year because they disagreed with her essay on women's rights.
Maya Forstater and Sasha White have lost their jobs for expressing similar opinions.
The podcasters at Triggernometry were kicked out of their studio for criticising aspects of the BLM organisation.
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying of the Dark Horse podcast were subjected to horrific mob behaviour and lost their university professor jobs because they refused to leave campus when ordered to by some of the students.


These are just some examples of people who lost livelihoods or faced threats because they expressed opinions that go against current leftist thinking. Whether you agree with their opinions or not, they should have the right to express them without facing death threats or losing their jobs. But the left is no longer the side that protects freedom of speech.
Very good!
__________________
I may have told you this before, I could have been the King of Wales
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 17-05-2021, 16:07
jac185 jac185 is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 278
I thought Orwellian was a trite title too (and still do to be honest - I can imagine it got a few eyerolls from non-Manics fans) but when I heard the JDB interview the other day about how the word gets thrown around so much these days, I actually now kind of view the lyric as a bit more about how the word gets thrown around, and the way language is used, rather than actually being about the idea that 'we live in Orwellian times'.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #521  
Old 17-05-2021, 16:32
Routine Builder's Avatar
Routine Builder Routine Builder is offline
Hold me she said, Love me to Death
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,821
To be honest, on a list of things I spend time fretting about, the job prospects of a few right wing bigots is not very high. There is no excuse for the personal abuse that JK Rowling has received, none whatsoever. But I find it funny that people seem to care about abuse directed towards women on the internet (which is extremely common) only when they have anti-trans views. Didn't see this outcry or support during Gamergate, that's for sure Also I am free to burn any JK Rowling books I own, that is a perfectly acceptable form of free speech and very different to the state collecting private collections of books and burning them in public.

Freedom of speech is a responsibility, not a blank cheque to piss on whatever minority you think shouldn't have the gall to speak up for their rights.
__________________


Stand back, I have political powers!
Reply With Quote
  #522  
Old 17-05-2021, 16:48
blackflower's Avatar
blackflower blackflower is offline
Bored of being bored
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Age: 49
Posts: 1,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
To be honest, on a list of things I spend time fretting about, the job prospects of a few right wing bigots is not very high. There is no excuse for the personal abuse that JK Rowling has received, none whatsoever. But I find it funny that people seem to care about abuse directed towards women on the internet (which is extremely common) only when they have anti-trans views. Didn't see this outcry or support during Gamergate, that's for sure Also I am free to burn any JK Rowling books I own, that is a perfectly acceptable form of free speech and very different to the state collecting private collections of books and burning them in public.

Freedom of speech is a responsibility, not a blank cheque to piss on whatever minority you think shouldn't have the gall to speak up for their rights.
None of the people I listed are right wing, and none are anti-trans. It’s not transphobic to believe in biological sex or protecting women’s sex based rights. People can have differing opinions on what this means and there should be conversations around that, but conversations are difficult when people get banned from platforms or labelled as bigots for expressing certain options. Meanwhile, the misogyny and homophobia expressed by some of the trans rights activists has been extreme, and comparatively consequence-free.

And of course you may burn whatever books you wish, I was just making the point that it’s people aligned with the progressive left who have been doing this in recent times, and not people on the right.

No one I mentioned has been pissing on any minority - they have simply expressed concerns in very moderate ways and been vilified beyond proportion. This is what I find chilling in modern society.
Reply With Quote
  #523  
Old 17-05-2021, 17:31
raven's Avatar
raven raven is offline
Winterlover
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,462
I'm not sure burning books is an acceptable means of free speech....even though there's 942546 million copies of Harry Potter in circulation ...last time I counted...so who'd miss a few...As a symbolic act it brings to mind dictatorships...Hitlers and Khomeini's....Of course not every opinion has to be tolerated but the symbol of a burning book suggests none are tolerated other than your own....and it doesn't clearly express what opinions those may be other than a hatred of others having access to others...
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
Reply With Quote
  #524  
Old 17-05-2021, 18:17
Finn's Avatar
Finn Finn is offline
HBIC
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackflower View Post
No one I mentioned has been pissing on any minority - they have simply expressed concerns in very moderate ways
"Expressed concerns in very moderate ways" = posts social media comment saying you're 'glad' a cis woman was willing to commit a vicious beating of a trans woman, whilst also misgendering the victim.



Sasha White seems pretty immoderate and 'anti-trans' to me.
Reply With Quote
  #525  
Old 17-05-2021, 18:39
cameron33 cameron33 is offline
I am purity, they call me perverted
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 152
I have to agree that the song reminds me in some ways of International Blue. Personally I think they’re of similar quality: both very good songs if not “amazing”. What is key is how it fits into the album. International Blue was one of, at most, 4 good bits in an otherwise very unexceptional and rather dull album by Manic standards. Let’s hope that isn’t the case this time. Even better if the whole can actually elevate its parts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.