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  #556  
Old 27-02-2019, 11:42
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It was Caffy St Luce.
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  #557  
Old 27-02-2019, 11:44
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Regardless of who it was said by, it was said to Richey and then used in a song that Richey wrote in the first person about himself.
We can't allow an agenda to rewrite accepted fact ffs.

And that's not having a pop at Finn or NasalScarecrow!
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  #558  
Old 27-02-2019, 11:47
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Faster- was a joint lyric. As far as I remember the lyric is about societal progress getting faster and faster not about Richey cutting himself, that's your interpretation. I'm not sure how you would square the rest of the song away with the same view. From my perspective the opening verse sounds like a description of dictatorial regime with a strong hint of idealogoical control. I never knew that it was an accepted fact that the song is about Richey, you might need to tell the band that...

While there are lyrics that may be more associated with Nick or Richey, it doesn't mean they didn't contribute titles and lines here or there.

If you look at Nicky's post THB lyrics for example, quite a large percentage is written from the first person.
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  #559  
Old 27-02-2019, 11:47
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No offence taken I just wanted to answer the question.
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  #560  
Old 27-02-2019, 11:50
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Faster- joint lyric but feel free to point out where people have called Richey a butcher or to all the buildings he has designed..
(I thought the songs was written from Winston Smith's perspective).
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  #561  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:08
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I suppose no one has the press release with Richey's track by track description for the songs on the Holy Bible?
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  #562  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:11
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I think so far our best guess has been that Leon Noakes is a ghost/assistant writer? As such is it not curious he has no other writing credits on Amazon or Goodreads? I mean, a ghost writer wouldn’t have to have I guess, but then that would make it odd he’s credited for this project but not others.

I’m still trying to make sense of how poorly written/lacking in editing and fact-checking this thing is, especially with so many people involved, as well as, you know, the whole thing itself...
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Last edited by sofarsideways; 27-02-2019 at 12:16.
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  #563  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Faster- joint lyric but feel free to point out where people have called Richey a butcher or to all the buildings he has designed..
I actually tend to agree with your points about WLW (and this is not a dig) but your comment reminded me of this bit from Withdrawn Traces.

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  #564  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:16
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https://www.songfacts.com/facts/mani...eachers/faster

There's always going to be interpretations. I accept that and there will be double meanings and other things implied.
But Faster has some very clear references to Self Harm and Richey's life and thoughts.
I'm aware of the politics on the Holy Bible (qand it is deeply political) but we can't all of a sudden stop talking about what a personal album it was from Richeys perspective and for years the narrative of 'Richeys suicide note' and other quotes like that have been used.

I'm certain James said he can't sing certain lines from 'Yes' like 'I hurt myself to get pain out'. So clearly that is yet another lyric wrote by Richey about Richey.
So to say he has never written about himself in the first person is ridiculous and goes against a lot of what he was known for. Deeply soul searching lyrics and admissions of his demons, shortcomings as well as his intellect and beliefs.

Richey had well documented insomnia issues, hence sleepflower.

With regard to Nicky contributing then yes of course he did, but by his own admission a lot of the lyrics to THB were Richeys and he added here and there.
Same will go for other songs, some will be heavily Richeys, some will be more Nickys but they would edit and help each other out.
So Williams Last Words isn't unique other than Richey wasn't around.
If there is a problem with that song, there should be an issue with releasing the whole of JFPL as all songs were edited wthout his input.
Richey knew the editing process and he left them the lyrics so there really isn't anything to get upset about.
The whole album is decicated to Richey as an artist, poet, lyricist or whatever.
It is highly respectful.

The band don't deserve any more shit at the moment over something so trivial.
This book is trying to do enough harm.

Last edited by beautifuldistortion; 27-02-2019 at 12:34.
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  #565  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
I suppose no one has the press release with Richey's track by track description for the songs on the Holy Bible?
Not from a press release but…

"Faster"

Nicky: Frankly, a lot of it is all Richey again, and I was always completely confused by it. But when he wrote it he told me it was about self-abuse. The opening line is: 'I am an architect/They call me a butcher' - and of course, he's been carving into his arm and all that...

I think it's the most confusing song on the album. I added some stuff about the regurgitation of 20th Century culture, and the way that everything's speeded up to such an extent that nobody knows if they've got any meaning any more.

It's probably the first time that we've written a song and not completely understood what we've written.

Richey: Strength through weakness. All morality sown in the soil of the ruling caste. Self-abuse is anti-social, aggression still natural. Society speeding up - finds worth is //in?// failure.

http://articles.richeyedwards.net/holybible.html
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  #566  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:26
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Originally Posted by beautifuldistortion View Post
The band don't deserve any more shit at the moment other something so trivial.
This book is trying to do enough harm.
Time for the forum shut up shop then, because by that logic we can't assess or analysis any of the band's lyrics. I was happy to have a discussion with you but it seems you're equating my opinions on Nicky's and Richey's writing styles, with SHR's hit job. Please get away from your electronic device, have a nice cup of tea and gain some perspective. We can disagree, the band is not perfect, they make mistakes even with good intentions. I'm quite happy to get over that and support them.
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  #567  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begging_to_be_cool View Post
Not from a press release but…

"Faster"

Nicky: Frankly, a lot of it is all Richey again, and I was always completely confused by it. But when he wrote it he told me it was about self-abuse. The opening line is: 'I am an architect/They call me a butcher' - and of course, he's been carving into his arm and all that...

I think it's the most confusing song on the album. I added some stuff about the regurgitation of 20th Century culture, and the way that everything's speeded up to such an extent that nobody knows if they've got any meaning any more.

It's probably the first time that we've written a song and not completely understood what we've written.

Richey: Strength through weakness. All morality sown in the soil of the ruling caste. Self-abuse is anti-social, aggression still natural. Society speeding up - finds worth is //in?// failure.

http://articles.richeyedwards.net/holybible.html
Thanks that last bit is from the press release and it seems to be completely illogical that people would have different interpretations based on that description.
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  #568  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Time for the forum shut up shop then, because by that logic we can't assess or analysis any of the band's lyrics. I was happy to have a discussion with you but it seems you're equating my opinions on Nicky's and Richey's writing styles, with SHR's hit job. Please get away from your electronic device, have a nice cup of tea and gain some perspective. We can disagree, the band is not perfect, they make mistakes even with good intentions. I'm quite happy to get over that and support them.
I am willing to converse but you are not answering my points that I have used with evidence. You're just trying to be pedantic or funny!
Richey wrote occasionally in the first person and to say otherwise is to skewer the evidence to fit your opinion on WLW or to just ignore what I have presented as contradictory to your thoughts.

The band is far from perfect and I love the debate but you have come back with a rather childish comment about getting away from my device as if you have all the right to opinion and I don't.
I am allowed to defend them where I see fit the same as you have the right to mention your opinion on WLW.
I just happen to not agree wwith your opinion and have posted some facts to back me up.

Last edited by beautifuldistortion; 27-02-2019 at 12:33. Reason: Spelling!
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  #569  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:35
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I will admit that when I wrote the band doesn't deserve anymore shit at the moment then maybe I was being a touch defensive and could have chosen a better turn of phrase.

I should have really said that maybe a discussion about a certain lyric should be on a different thread as here my emotions are peaked due to the callous nature of the book.

So for that I apologise and I do not mean to lump you in with SHR at all.
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  #570  
Old 27-02-2019, 12:42
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I mentioned the WLW thing from the book as Rachel highlights it as a particular bone of contention while also making it clear the band can’t win whatever they do or don’t do with Richey’s lyrics. Certainly wasn’t trying to insist my feelings about it are ‘correct’, very much mentioned them as a by-the-by. Of course understand response/differing views, but really not the point at hand, as I think beautifuldistortion is trying to say.
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Last edited by sofarsideways; 27-02-2019 at 14:01.
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