Richey - The Wrong Beginning

[A Forest]

Originally Posted by Matt_o_Mac

I doubt that to be honest, i still make references to the freinds and the girlfreind who have passed on.

You almost make a concisous decision sometimes not to make something about it, but in the end you do.

Plus its James first written material much like "English Gentlemen" its the first time he has had the chance to put demons to rest.

I'm not sure if I understand your point, but I like the words 'put demons to rest'. I've always thought that there is a certain otherworldry vibe in Manics' songs and it gives lots of power, artistically. On the other hand it's kind of inconspicuous and natural, like any other aspect of everyday life -- that just belongs there and all you can really do is get along with it. It just reminds me of the subtitle of Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut, 'A Duty Dance with Death'. That's what all good art is about... basically.

[Matt_o_Mac]

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

I'm not sure if I understand your point, but I like the words 'put demons to rest'. I've always thought that there is a certain otherworldry vibe in Manics' songs and it gives lots of power, artistically. On the other hand it's kind of inconspicuous and natural, like any other aspect of everyday life -- that just belongs there and all you can really do is get along with it. It just reminds me of the subtitle of Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut, 'A Duty Dance with Death'. That's what all good art is about... basically.

I'm just suggesting we repeat ideas in our heads and try and put them to bed, I've seriously strained to write something decent about certain people to do them justice which in the end i have never felt it has, however other poems i have written have put topics to bed such as my childhood home and other things.

I'm about to read that for my course.

[Scarecrow]

Meanings aside, it's one of my faves on the album. The vocals are lush.

[Mr Inconspicuous]

I'm pretty sure this is just a neat little coincidence, but the following is a stanza from Philip Larkin's Aubade, which I understand was Richey's favourite poem:

The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse
-- The good not done, the love not given, time
Torn off unused -- nor wretchedly because
An only life can take so long to climb
Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never;
But at the total emptiness for ever,
The sure extinction that we travel to
And shall be lost in always. Not to be here,
Not to be anywhere,
And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true

It's just kind of mentioned in passing in the poem, but I always thought it was a poignant idea: that someone would be born into a social class or family background that was totally at variance with their true selves and they would spend their whole life struggling to become the person they were at heart.
The song lyric doesn't seem to be about this, and I don't think Richey really felt this way about his background, but I just thought I'd mention it anyway...

[Silver10]

Originally Posted by misterpaul

I don't know if this has been pointed out before but, last night, I was reading Simon Price's book on the band, and in an interview, Richey says:
"I honestly believe things would have been different if I'd have had blue eyes."
And this lyric to James' Wrong Beginning just came to mind:
"Please don't ever tell me, how it could have been different if you would have had blue eyes."

Just a thought.

Yeah, I remember thinking that the first time I heard that song and I wondered the same thing... Those lines really popped out at me because I always thought that growing up lol. I have blue eyes. I wish I had brown eyes. I think maybe I'd be completely different. I think I'd have more common sense and I'd be less flighty and shy.

[Silver10]

Originally Posted by Matt_o_Mac

You almost make a concisous decision sometimes not to make something about it, but in the end you do.

Yep. Every time. *insert sad cheesy smile*

[Kieslowski]

Originally Posted by UEF

I can't help but feel that, after 12 years, all these richey references are being inserted into songs because they're expected.

That's just a TAD cynical - I would like to think Nicky (and, on this occasion, James) wouldn't say "Hmmm, I'd better mention Richey here because if I don't, our fans will declare the riot act on us". Also, it completely underestimates the effect Richey's disappearance had on them - I know that if an extremely close childhood friend of mine, someone I'd been close to for as long as I could remember, were to suddenly disappear one day, it'd play on my mind for quite a considerable length of time, if not forever.

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by Louise Mitch

It's my favourite song on the album. Live, it is amazing.

Oh TWB is great. indeed I'm going to listen to TGW now after reading this thread

[El_Scorcho]

Originally Posted by Kieslowski

That's just a TAD cynical - I would like to think Nicky (and, on this occasion, James) wouldn't say "Hmmm, I'd better mention Richey here because if I don't, our fans will declare the riot act on us". Also, it completely underestimates the effect Richey's disappearance had on them - I know that if an extremely close childhood friend of mine, someone I'd been close to for as long as I could remember, were to suddenly disappear one day, it'd play on my mind for quite a considerable length of time, if not forever.

Indeed, its like that hack who suggested that the bridge on the cover of SATT was a reference to the Severn ...

[YouLoveMe]

Originally Posted by El_Scorcho

Indeed, its like that hack who suggested that the bridge on the cover of SATT was a reference to the Severn ...

To be fair, I think it's an easy assumption to make, even if it's not the correct one.

And yes, I know it's a different bridge.

[El_Scorcho]

Aye fair enough. I just thought it a bit insensitive (and no, I'm not a CoR ).

[YouLoveMe]

Originally Posted by El_Scorcho

Aye fair enough. I just thought it a bit insensitive (and no, I'm not a CoR ).

True, but I think that the Manics must have known that people would form conclusions about the album cover and Richey's disappearance - in fact, they were probably enticing people to form conclusions.

[El_Scorcho]

To be honest I didn't even notice the bridge when the artwork was first released . I guess you make a good point, people are bound to read into it. Still, I would have stopped at 'tribute' rather than 'grim marketing ploy'.

[Kieslowski]

Originally Posted by El_Scorcho

To be honest I didn't even notice the bridge when the artwork was first released . I guess you make a good point, people are bound to read into it. Still, I would have stopped at 'tribute' rather than 'grim marketing ploy'.

I never noticed either. To be honest, I don't go looking for Richey references in everything the MSP do, and this probably helps.

[Fabulous Disaster]

Originally Posted by Louise Mitch

It's my favourite song on the album. Live, it is amazing.

That's so true- I like the studio version, but live it went to another level. Same for 'On Saturday Morning...'