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  #766  
Old 31-03-2019, 20:53
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  #767  
Old 01-04-2019, 12:42
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Originally Posted by 4our5ive6ix View Post
Stiff With A Quiff by Nick Toczek. The lines, "It's a lousy life for the washed up wife of a permanently plastered, pissed up bastard."

https://diffuser.fm/pete-doherty-set...ealing-lyrics/

Ah, yeah, that rings a bell now. Thanks for this.
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  #768  
Old 02-04-2019, 21:30
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Originally Posted by Europa Gluten Free View Post
The chapter that started breaking down the Holy Bible lyrics was atrocious.
Each section seems to return to the point that Richey was interested in this movie or that book in which the protagonist disappeared and committed suicide and so it all makes sense. That is the overall narrative thread. Very poor.
The Holy Bible is summed up as 'spiralling disjunctions, scattershot outrage and sheer cryptic messiness'....which isnít a particularly good description of the album but of the book? They ignore the majority of his work which is odd if this is an attempt to recognise the writer/lyricist/wordsmith. Instead they focus on a handful of songs pretty much exclusively from The Holy Bible and we all know that of course the personal is political? Well, they take this absolutely literally and the songs are all stripped of the political and historical content and of their merit and are turned into hidden rants against the band and against the constraints of the record company and the business as a whole. Man kills everything? The Man who owns the record label, references to dictators and political failures like Pol Pot? All reflect Richeyís obsession with the perfect disappearance (have to say personally I didnít get the impression he was particularly but maybe itís just because you feel the urge to resist being shoved around by the author so much) Pol Pot was certainly responsible for a lot of disappearances but I just, fail to make the connection,...

The Intense Humming of Evil thatís riled a few is just random ideas thrown in devoid of context. When you go back to the lyrics it doesnít seem to be referencing them entirely. Nowhere does it mention the prevalence in the media and on campuses at the time of holocaust denial which really forms the background with historical facts suddenly up for serious debate under the misnomer of free speech...if youíre looking for links link it in with PCP as the ideas that thread through both link together. When words are rinsed of meaning, when every opinion is afforded equal respect, thatís opinion not person, in the name of free speech we risk losing the meaning of everything....6 million lives? Well, maybe (Deborah Lipstadtís book Holocaust on Trial published the year before the album came out is excellent. If you want more insight read that donít be looking for how kulturkampf and raus raus were about telling his bandmates where to get off

Where is the exploration of his work, appreciation, critique. His intention which they mention but lose under all this clue seeking was to provoke, to make people think Ė itís all he really wanted to achieve, the band was the vehicle for that and absolutely there are some very disturbing lines on the album that tell you about the state his mind was in....but those lie primarily in songs like Die in the Summertime, 4st 7lbs...those arenít really touched on, in Yes too which is instead reduced to some bizarre part telepathic part conspiracy theory rambling about the evil entertainment industry abusing its young.

I do get an impression of Richey but itís shadowy and it really feels like his absence has left a space for everyone to write his narrative and they write it through their eyes. He feels strangely absent through a lot of it absent to them too maybe?
There are mentions of Syd Barrett obviously, Ian Curtis, Kurt including the murder conspiracy and Brian Jones ditto....in fact theyíve slotted him quite tightly into a Brian Jones mould I feel someoneís read a few of his biographies whilst writing this which would explain the incessant attempt to make you feel that in the few short few months between the album coming out and his disappearance he was made to feel unwanted by the band and pushed out by the management.....the facts seem to fit more neatly in the case of Brian Jones but not too well here for all that those months did sound like absolute hell

My impression is that his sister, his friends who contribute here, Jo, were not close to the band and Richey didnít seem inclined to talk about the people he knew with others and that this wasnít a conscious keeping people separated but just happenstance, friends who met Richey at college were a year older/ahead of the rest of the band for example and Jo was so far on the periphery she wasnít really part of his life with the band. All accounts and references to the 3 are drawn from press interviews apart from the odd controversial comment like Nicky saying there was a Vivian in Richeyís hotel room that last night. How he would have known is a mystery but itís all a mystery, how Nicky came to say it is a mystery given how the Rachel camp seem so adamant that the band positively kept them at barge pole length.

Itís petty at times Ďit must have been frustrating for them (the band) to abandon some of their more familiar habits to accommodate somebody who was in recoveryí said his sister commenting on the difficult autumn tour when Nicky just wanted to go home and James drank it all out but knew he couldnít drink on the bus in front of Richey and hostile at others. His sister doesnít believe Richey did ever hand the Bugs Bunny folder of writings that went on to form Journal for Plague Lovers over to the band (It was at his flat when he disappeared it states and they asked Rachel if she would fetch it for them which she did without looking at it at all and clearly now regrets)

The bandís respect for the familyís privacy is acknowledged but itís a backhanded compliment as she believes itís an excuse for them to do nothing to actively help search for him. It gets petty on the part of one of his friends regarding what the band have said, petty and childish in its assumption that the band's hurt is somehow less than theirs as if thereís a rulebook.

And jealous? I feel thatís underlying a lot of it. The band were close but they were also around him nearly all the time over those last few years and I donít get the impression the others quite had him that close which must hurt even if it makes no sense. And there isnít one instance of Richey actually saying anything negative about the 3 friends in the band itís only implied and deduced by the writers while he hangs back off the page

One person who does give you a real sense of the man though is Rosie Dunn a journalist who was in the Priory at the same time and formed a friendship that lasted on until he disappeared...skim to her parts she makes you feel heís there in the room in a way the rest of the bookís accounts donít. Sheís observant and tactful too brings across his kindness, his intelligence, his humour too even in that place. Yes she should have been entrusted with the book

All that said, and I know Iíve broken the word count record, the final chapter Rachelís Search is worth everyoneís time and why, as frustrating as the book is, as ill put together and lacking in reflection, jumping from one philosopher to another, one author to the next and all reduced to just explaining his disappearance as if his vanishing was his lifeís work itís impossible to judge her because she has put in hours, weeks, months, years trying to find just a trace of him and she has come up against one brick wall after another. The initial investigation possibly helped put pay to his family ever learning the truth. They failed for example to authorise a search by the coastguard and Severn Area Rescue Association following the discovery of his car despite being aware he was very vulnerable. Failed not just to view the bridge CCTV but to even check if the service station and car park had any. The stories she learnt about the experiences of others who had family members go missing are harrowing and can only have lodged themselves in her mind regarding Richey and his possible fate. I canít judge her. Who am I to judge her?? I just wish sheíd put her project, put her brother in the hands of a more capable writer/journalist/reporter
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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson

Last edited by raven; 03-04-2019 at 00:22.
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  #769  
Old 02-04-2019, 22:52
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Son of Stopped Son of Stopped is online now
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I play my Derek Smalls card and ask "Is the diary of a Manic Street Preachers fan" from Melody Maker referenced at all?
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  #770  
Old 03-04-2019, 00:29
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I'm so CoR everything is rubbish etc etc
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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
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  #771  
Old 03-04-2019, 09:38
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The only thing I can work out about the Vivian reference is that she may have been linked with the band and/or Richey at some point and was able to approach someone in the manics camp to tell her story. Whether true or not I don’t know but it’s such a huge revelation that surely if it was true Nicky would have thought it would be so important and would have alerted the press or public to her story. The fact we are only hearing this now 24 years later doesn’t sit well with me as truth or Richey cannon.

I agree with Raven above that the book implies that Richey from the outset was developing his story and rock myth at the very beginning of the band seems highly unlikely. In the beginning of his involvement he was focusing on playing up the manics to the press to be discovered. The band already had what they described as a dossier on members of the press and set things they wanted to say and do to draw attention to the band often saying very provocative things for attention. For example, Nicky said something about a sexually transmitted disease like herpes or syphalis to the press to further their image of culture sluts until his mom got very angry and told him to stop.

I have no problem believing that Richey became very disillusioned with these stories they generated to the press hence the song “yes” and were tired of those tactics. However, I don’t put much credence in that in light of him seeking out The female reporter with them in Thailand to discuss his exploits with a prostitute to make some statement regarding his sexuality, I think he played up his naivety with sex and women as he did have many groupies. I think he felt his image should be one of purity I guess. If he truly felt like he said I don’t think he would continue sleeping with groupies after a few tries if he was truly asexual. It’s hard for me to know when he and Nicky were exaggerating the truth or lying to maintain their image. Someone mentioned well this story is the truth because Richey said it when we all know Richey said a lot of things lol doesn’t mean it was true as there are other examples of the incongruous between his truth and reality.

A few things from the book that caught my attention was the mention of a suicide letter written before his first attempt which I had never heard before as well as some of the letters he wrote Jo. I was never quite that sure about her as she had been described as being a huge fan of another group and was only around the manics camp sometimes but not consistently. Although those around the time verified her existence, I think her comments showed me she was real if that makes sense.

As described above by Ravin I too believe that the woman who was friends with Richey at the priory reported a lot of insight about Richey during the time. I’m also a very firm believer that Richey did indeed provide his lyrics to the band so they can be used.

A couple of other things I wanted to point out and was confirmed by some fans around that time was that the fan Becky got herself checked into the priory at the same time to get closer to Richey (?). Regarding Pete Doherty and the libertines, they also used a few lines from someone on the song can’t stand me now which resulted in the inclusion of this persons name as co-writer for the song.

Last edited by vaiden; 08-04-2019 at 11:12. Reason: to spell manics correctly
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  #772  
Old 05-04-2019, 20:24
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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Book thoughts
I have to preface this by saying that my views were prejudiced by what I read about SHR’s behaviour, before I started reading. I am up to the end of chapter 5, and it is not as bad, or as badly written, as I was expecting. That said, three things stand out so far - some of the praise of Richey’s geniuses is laughable; and he really, really does not sound nice. But most importantly, what is with that one paragraph about when Richey was 10 years old?!

Re the evidence of his genius and foreshadowing- mentions of the Severn Bridge are not profound for a person living so close to Cardiff. I lived in the Valleys for a short time, the bridge is a huge feature of life, escape to England, escape to Wales, it’s not a special motif. I live in the North East now, and my son must have done ten pieces of work about the Tyne Bridge before the age of six!

School reports. Not exceptional, sorry. Two Bs doesn’t make ‘excelled at history’. And the comment from his teacher about not being so wide-ranging, is a common mistake for young students, just because you can spill out lots of knowledge, doesn’t mean you’re demonstrating good understanding. Being discerning with your sources is part of the academic skill. I’m not criticising Richey’s teenage enthusiasm, but it’s not good evidence of his intellect in the way it’s presented.

Richey predicted Nirvana’s Pennyroyal Tea more than ten years before it was written?

So Richey wasn’t close to the other Manics at school. And? I don’t remember reading that they were best friends until later, but even if that was part of the myth, so what. Doesn’t mean that they didn’t become close later.

Regarding girlfriends, I just have to say it - some of those descriptions are pretty incel-like. Girls are perfect or they are sullied. Eurgh.

And finally, trigger warning for child abuse

*
*
*
What the fuck was that throw-away paragraph about ten year old Richey running scared out of the woods, from the ‘local weirdo’? Am I alone in thinking the darkest possible interpretation? At the very least, it seems he was in fear of harm. You can’t just throw that in with no substance or analysis!!

Will return in a few more chapters!
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  #773  
Old 05-04-2019, 21:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post

Regarding girlfriends, I just have to say it - some of those descriptions are pretty incel-like.

I laughed because all the way through I was thinking how Richey would've been on /rk9 posting incel manifestos if it'd been around when he was younger!

The only thing about "the Woods incident" I agree that it seemed like it was just thrown in there. They were desperately grabbing at anything (and maybe padding the book out a bit). " I donít know if it was an incident". So don't mention it? Too much of the book's a filler.
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  #774  
Old 05-04-2019, 21:19
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Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
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People. The book is awful. Genuinely awful.
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  #775  
Old 05-04-2019, 22:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Book thoughts
I have to preface this by saying that my views were prejudiced by what I read about SHR’s behaviour, before I started reading. I am up to the end of chapter 5, and it is not as bad, or as badly written, as I was expecting.
Were your expectations set very low? It is badly written and badly needs a good editorial hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
That said, three things stand out so far - some of the praise of Richey’s geniuses is laughable; and he really, really does not sound nice. But most importantly, what is with that one paragraph about when Richey was 10 years old?!

School reports. Not exceptional, sorry. Two Bs doesn’t make ‘excelled at history’. And the comment from his teacher about not being so wide-ranging, is a common mistake for young students, just because you can spill out lots of knowledge, doesn’t mean you’re demonstrating good understanding. Being discerning with your sources is part of the academic skill. I’m not criticising Richey’s teenage enthusiasm, but it’s not good evidence of his intellect in the way it’s presented.
It's a skill you learn isn't it - how to shape your essay, draw out the key facts, draw conclusions you can back up with evidence but also go further and make connections or offer a unique insight or perspective....that enthusiasm is the start of that and I agree that the focus stays only on his schooldays and primarily his early schooldays. There is nothing drawn from his university days, he clearly was academically minded but you wouldn't realise that from the focus on the book and that's what I personally found particularly frustrating. If you want the man better understood and appreciated as a writer you can't just pull out some essays from early school days.
I feel that the point really was to colour everything with his future disappearance, find clues in everything and although I agree with you its ridiculous that's the reason why I think you get these early stories referencing the Severn Bridge and nothing really from his late teens on as they probably couldn't make many links between his thoughts on say American foreign policy and his disappearance....though I'm sure they probably could if they'd tried

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Richey predicted Nirvana’s Pennyroyal Tea more than ten years before it was written?
Oh he was prophetic There are a few bizarre theories around Nirvana. Resented them along with his bandmates don't you know? Me neither. Drug Drug Druggy? Referenced Kurt & Courtney don't you know? No, me neither. Then there's the Kurt was killed conspiracy theory. What isn't really mentioned is the impact Kurt's death may have had on him. Of course he didn't know him but it happened less than a year prior to his disappearance, and like the death of River Phoenix (not referenced in the book) these things seemed to lodge in his mind....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
Regarding girlfriends, I just have to say it - some of those descriptions are pretty incel-like. Girls are perfect or they are sullied. Eurgh.
He seemed immature. To be fair though I can't tell from the book if it's just crippling insecurities and shyness he'd have got over in time but his illness had a pretty strong hold from pretty early on. I felt for him in the descriptions from Nicky's wedding, some erroneous conclusions are drawn and I do wonder if he was as visibly shaken as the picture they paint but I just felt he was upset he was losing his best friend and was being left behind ...things seemed to start unravelling more rapidly after that but yeah he did seem to have very fixed ideas - if I marry by the year's end I'll be happy maybe people joked and laughed it off and of course it was unrealistic but well, maybe he just wanted to figure out how a human being gets happy..

I think if he doesn't come across as particularly likeable it's in part because of the way the authors continually want to point score against the big bad band mates and the evil Man down the record label stifling his creativity etc....it gets increasingly frustrating the feeling that you're being allowed close to Richey but only under supervision and with nearly everything he says or does having the author jump up to say he was referencing how orrible the band, record company are

There's practically nothing of the family dynamics touched on beyond his father a little bit and his relationship with his mother is not touched on nor his relationship with his sister really. Apart from it all being wonderful till they left their grandma's house which seemed to make him feel a little adrift though why isn't clear except that he'd clearly spent a lot of time with his gran so it must have been not just a wrench but at that age maybe didn't make much sense as to why things had to change..Growns up eh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Angel View Post
What the fuck was that throw-away paragraph about ten year old Richey running scared out of the woods, from the ‘local weirdo’? Am I alone in thinking the darkest possible interpretation? At the very least, it seems he was in fear of harm. You can’t just throw that in with no substance or analysis!!
I have a lil feeling we are supposed to think something terrible happened in the dark woods with the local 'weirdo'. How weird? I wanted to know - did she go home with him? Tell their mum? Problem is there is a lot of theory and not a lot of substance throughout that it's hard to know if this is true or means anything or he did get a scare but not the kind we're all immediately having our minds turned towards. It's also a bit too neat, like a classic children's horror story beware the weirdo in the woods
__________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
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  #776  
Old 05-04-2019, 23:57
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Speaking of no Nirvana, it's always stated that In Utero was the tape in the car but this book says it was Sex Pistols. Did I miss something?

Speaking of Nicky's wedding, I found that description of a man broken by his friend's marriage strange. He's beaming harder than anybody else on the wedding photos.
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  #777  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:33
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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I haven’t got as far as the wedding etc. But now you mention it, the lack of discussion about family is strange.
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  #778  
Old 06-04-2019, 10:53
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Europa Gluten Free Europa Gluten Free is offline
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The funny thing about the book is that this "exposť" of the what really happened with Richey around this time shows that nobody actually knows anything.

90% of the book is quotes from other already published TV or print interviews, the writers' interpretations of Richey's interest in the arts, and awful interpretations of Richey's lyrics.

10% is "archive stuff" that is really just schoolwork essays and letters to people that obviously mean very little.

It's clear that SHR doesn't know anything. It's sad that it appears that Rachel wasn't so close to Richey around this time and doesn't offer anything either.

As I've said before on here - a REALLY interesting investigative book would be to write about his last year in the band. Simply as a music bio that would be captivating. It is clear (as we all knew before the writing of this book) there were HUGE tensions in the band. Human tensions that the band now gloss over when preferring to just touch upon the myth of the genius of Richey.

But this Traces book is awful.
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  #779  
Old 07-04-2019, 09:04
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I believe the last few posters, Raven, Europa Gluten Free, and Glass Angel are all spot on. I feel the beginning chapter of the book was just filler and wonder if the cause is that it is just filler or something legally removed? The book, dare I say it, was not especially well written. Leaving out the archive, I feel like any of us could have written the book with all of the articles we already have and with more accuracy. Even then, I think it would have been better particularly if we were called to task by the posters that are here now and were there then. The song analysis, the last chapter I believe, was so poor I could barely leave out a giggle every now and again. Richey and Nicky wrote in the liner notes what each song meant to them as did Price in Everything. To make mention of what somebody wrote earlier"...hmmmm.

person in the woods? One paragraph? not convinced nor do I have ANY insight whatsoever about his family. Even though Im not his biggest fan, read Everything by Simon Price for a better book. Meanwhile I'm crossing my fingers that one of the band will get around to an autobiography.
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  #780  
Old 07-04-2019, 09:06
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Oh and Handbag, Nirvana what? I much like you barely glanced over that part as my eyes glossed over. It has always been reported that Richey was playing In Utero when he picked up the reporter and when they located the car.
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