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  #181  
Old 18-09-2018, 16:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glyn View Post
Wasn't it also a Japanese single ? Wonder if that's what has caused confusion

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  #182  
Old 18-09-2018, 18:11
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Originally Posted by Mr Richey View Post
I don’t agree with this new trend where the lads re-release an album and change the tracklisting...

...but if I was going to junk anything from TIMTTMY, it would be “You Stole The Sun From My Heart” without a second’s hesitation.
I agree completely, but as that was a huge single, it was never going to happen.
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  #183  
Old 18-09-2018, 18:13
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I do own a copy of 'TIMTTMY' on vinyl and as I'd rather have NLY than PTH (which I already have on vinyl on 'Lipstick Traces') I'm considering buying the box set but not the inevitable vinyl re-issue, unless a) the remastering is spectacular or b) the record is part of the box set (depends if the model is THB and EMG or SATT re-issues).
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  #184  
Old 18-09-2018, 19:03
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I'm really looking forward to this, Truth is in my top 3 and these anniversary packages have always been really well put together, can't wait to see what unseen/unheard material there is. Hope there's a lovely new Kieran documentary with it, or a nice good quality version of the BBC Close Up from the time.

Don't really see the controversy in the potential tracklisting change, Prologue is more than worthy of it's place on the album, just see it as a re-imagining as with the SATT10 release.

Glad to see they're thinking of 'old school' venues if they tour it. Would be glad to see Wolves Civic, Manc Apollo, Brixton etc again (though I'm still hoping one day they do a gig at Cardiff Millennium Centre with a full orchestra, this would be the ideal opportunity).
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  #185  
Old 18-09-2018, 19:08
PaulTMA PaulTMA is offline
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What an insanely terrible idea to drop Nobody Loved You. While it may not longer be my favourite song on the album, it unquestionably was 20 years ago and like so many others are saying - why drop it when there are quite a few songs which would be missed far less? Utter insanity.

Underdogs, yeah fine. That album's ropey as fuck anyway.

Watch out, they'll be endosring Anne Marie Waters next.
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  #186  
Old 18-09-2018, 22:39
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Of course it's up to them to drop 'Nobody Loved' You but, in my opinion. Why? What a dumb decision and i'm guessing its on Nicky's part. The lyrics aren't his best but the music and melodies are absolutely sublime and shouldn't be wiped from this album. Come on Nick.. At least rewrite the lyrics and don't deprive us of those melodies and instrumentation.
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  #187  
Old 18-09-2018, 23:14
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Originally Posted by kevoutus View Post
Of course it's up to them to drop 'Nobody Loved' You but, in my opinion. Why? What a dumb decision and i'm guessing its on Nicky's part. The lyrics aren't his best but the music and melodies are absolutely sublime and shouldn't be wiped from this album. Come on Nick.. At least rewrite the lyrics and don't deprive us of those melodies and instrumentation.
I love the lyrics so nurrrr.

As a Star Wars fan re-issues with controversial changes by the artist is nothing new to me. The difference here is we already have Nobody Loved You in great quality, and it's not going anywhere. So whilst I personally don't love the decision either, I respect their right to do what they want with the re-release and I've already got over it.

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  #188  
Old 18-09-2018, 23:15
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So we'll get a nicer remaster of the whole TIMTTMY album -- but not ONE song, Nobody Loved You. That has to have thin late 90s treble sound til the end of time.

God damn it, these guys...

I absolutely love that song. The "it's unreal now you're gone" line is one of the defining moments on the album. So annoyed at this right now, I wish I was less annoyed. I was in this for a remastered TIMTTY sound wise (I have audiophile's disease) this nulls and voids the thing for me. Grrrrr..

Last edited by Marat Sar; 18-09-2018 at 23:19.
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  #189  
Old 18-09-2018, 23:15
rosetree rosetree is offline
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I agree, Nobody Loved You should stay on the album re issue, which obviously won't be the same without it. Though Nicky has probably decided upon. It would be better to just add more than replace songs. Also some people might not have heard the original especially when they've rarely played it live at all.
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  #190  
Old 18-09-2018, 23:20
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Question: How many songs does it take to drop for an album to stop being itself and become something else?
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  #191  
Old 18-09-2018, 23:21
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Originally Posted by Marat Sar View Post
So we'll get a nicer remaster of the whole TIMTTMY album -- but not ONE song, Nobody Loved You. That has to have thin late 90s treble sound til the end of time.

God damn it, these guys!

I absolutely love that song, top three on the album. The "it's unreal now you're gone" moment is one of the defining moments on the album.

So annoyed at this right now man. I wish I was less annoyed but I'm not.
This is the best point about all this IMHO. The track listing of the first disc is one thing, but by leaving it off entirely it means we don't get NYL remastered. I'm not overly bothered because I think the original TIMTTMY sounds pretty fine anyway really and I'm not amazingly blown away by any of the remasters we've had so far.

I bet they did remaster it anyway and it'll be on a future re-release. Would seem silly not to. And/or they'll probably remaster it again by then anyway.
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  #192  
Old 18-09-2018, 23:26
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Question: How many songs does it take to drop for an album to stop being itself and become something else?
That's a good philosophical question that has been posed throughout history in various forms. How much of a thing can you change or replace until it is no longer the original thing? From inanimate objects to living beings.

Quote:
"In the metaphysics of identity, the ship of Theseus — or Theseus's paradox — is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether a ship—standing for an object in general—that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Famously featured on Only Fools and Horses as 'Trigger's Broom' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE

(I feel like I've posted all this before here or elsewhere, maybe I could have copied that post and just changed parts of it... )

In one sense you don't even need to change anything at all, simply re-releasing it in a different time period makes it different by its context.
-Or you could argue that remastering it without changing the track listing makes it something else - I mean if it were no different, why even bother, right?
-Or you could argue changing one song makes it something else because the album is a delicate balance of tones, tempos, lyrical content, and the interplay of each song with all the others is part of what make it what it was.
-Or you could argue for it being until it's a majority of the album (so 7 tracks) or a majority of its duration regardless of track numbers.
-Or you could argue that as long as anything remains from the original album it still somehow contains the spirit of it in part.
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Last edited by Porco; 18-09-2018 at 23:32.
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  #193  
Old 19-09-2018, 08:08
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The song isn't being left off entirely - it's on the 2nd disc. Presumably remastered, but who knows? I can never hear the difference with Manics stuff anyway.
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  #194  
Old 19-09-2018, 10:19
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Yeah, like every other mug I'll pick up a box set..

Baffled by the talk of swapping Prologue To History for Nobody Loved You though. I probably said the same thing on the thread for the Send Away The Tigers reissue - when Suede gave their first five albums the reissue treatment, the liner notes had an alternative tracklisting in and I loved that. I can't think off the top of my head of any reissues that have omitted tracks from them and can only think of a couple of albums that have added tracks as part of the album for later issues.

I dunno, I understand the appeal to rewrite history. They're a highly self-critical band, there are bound to be loads of instances throughout their career of stuff they wish they'd done differently or not at all etc. Underdogs, I could kind of understand, it was dropped like a hot rock and get the impression that generally fans are much more favourable of Welcome To The Dead Zone than that. Haven't listened to the reissue that many times but it catches you out. Nobody Loved You, I don't recall the band being disparaging about it at all? Plus it was put out as a single in Japan. I don't get it... Don't know if this reissue is likely to be in the vein of the Holy Bible and Everything Must Go box sets or more like the Send Away The Tigers and National Treasures 2cd/dvd things. Either way, you'd expect there to be enough room for Prologue...
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  #195  
Old 19-09-2018, 10:32
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Originally Posted by Routine Builder View Post
Question: How many songs does it take to drop for an album to stop being itself and become something else?
For me it'll vary from album to album. This Is My Truth, for me, feels more like a collection of songs rather than a sum of its parts type album like say, Dark Side Of The Moon. I think Dark Side Of The Moon would miss any one track from that more than This Is My Truth would miss Nobody Loved You. Yeah, there are continuing themes and emotions through the album as there will inevitably be with most albums being products of their times and environments. I love This Is My Truth, I think it flows and contrasts well but at the same time I don't think different tracks are dependent on one another to that extent.
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