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  #736  
Old 21-03-2019, 19:09
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Richey's drawing of Ace Garp in 2000 AD wasn't the first prize winner of "a nationwide competition". It was that issue's chosen readers art. Not to be picky, but these inaccuracies really do no favours if we're supposed to believe everything written in the book when they're biggin' Richey up as a grand prize winner when he wasn't. (Cute drawing, though!)
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  #737  
Old 21-03-2019, 20:14
Bryter Layter Bryter Layter is offline
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Originally Posted by handbag View Post
Richey's drawing of Ace Garp in 2000 AD wasn't the first prize winner of "a nationwide competition". It was that issue's chosen readers art. Not to be picky, but these inaccuracies really do no favours if we're supposed to believe everything written in the book when they're biggin' Richey up as a grand prize winner when he wasn't. (Cute drawing, though!)
Thanks! I wouldn't have known either way. I noticed a few glaring inaccuracies relating to the band, one in particular involved stating, several times in fact and by various people not involved with the band in any capacity, that the '4 REAL' incident was what got them signed. That's an assumption not a fact. The '4 REAL' incident happened a week before they signed and you can't make a deal like that in a week! An agreement has to go through many channels, including negotiations and legal, before the final contract is issued. That's just common sense!

Last edited by Bryter Layter; 21-03-2019 at 20:49.
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  #738  
Old 21-03-2019, 23:17
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Yeah, I don't know. All his friends and stuff seem to think it had something to do with him having acne for most of his teen years, but I'm sure there was a lot more to it than just skin issues. It usually is with these kinds of body issues and self hate. The Teddy Edwards thing is interesting though. I'm not British so I don't really know where the reference comes from, but maybe it did have an impact on him at a formative age.
Teddy's a nickname for Edward. And having a google there was a kids TV programme here through the 70s about a Teddy Edwards (before my time but I remember a drunk Nicky saying it was cos he looked liked a teddy bear. Cute and cuddly is I'm sure the reason why but you might read chubby in that....though it wasn't the intention or not in any negative sense anyway I'm sure. I'm not sure how old he was at the time but I know names even with the sweetest intentions can play on your mind but he really may have been too young at the time.
Acne would explain a lot I feel. The only reference he ever made was in Faster I think? But, well, it can be more than just a skin issue.....it gets shrugged off as a 'teenage thing' as if it's something everyone goes through but it's more than that, much more and can lead to some serious self hatred. It never gets talked about unlike anorexia say which felt like it was a fashion at one point with regards to the amount of press interest, there's something glamorous in the image of wasting away supermodel waiflike (I know that's far from the reality) but it's seen as more glam than it's twin bulimia and certainly more attractive than acne which isn't perceived as remotely attractive or tragic but it can destroy your self esteem and of course it's happening to you right through the time when everyone around you is becoming aware of appearance and you're starting to realise you're judged on how attractive you are compared to the next person. And kids don't hold back. It can do serious harm to your self image and it's hard to leave that behind even when it does.....which can be a few years.
It sounds silly but in a way you don't, or I should say I don't, see these things as affecting boys as much as they're not really held up and judged on their appearance in the way girls are. But maybe that's actually part of the problem.



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I'm sure he did know that young girls found him attractive and he played that up for his own gain. I'm not excusing that kind of behaviour, just noting that given his negative body image, he may have gotten a boost to his ego from seeing how much these people wanted to be with him. It's also probably a power thing too. I'm sure that plays into it as well because it usually does. Not surprisingly though, the book only mentions groupies a few times and both instances are extremely dismissive (tbh, I'm shocked they were mentioned at all! Lol!). There's also no mention of the young teenage fans he used although she does reference them as groupies (again vague and dismissive) before beginning another tiresome interpretation of one of the songs on THB, this time 'Yes". Speaking of his contact with teenagers, IMO, the most disturbing thing in the book isn't the subtle and sometimes blatant slagging off the band gets, its actually the attempt to normalize and romanticize a relationship between a man in his 20s and a teenage girl he met when she was 15/16. They even go so far as to say, he wanted a relationship so he "kept her on the periphery" when she was 17 (oh! How nice of him! Lol!). I just hope this woman didn't waste her teen years refusing to date other people and just sitting by the phone waiting for him to call or write her a letter. Basically just waiting for him to make up his mind about dating her meanwhile he's sleeping with other people. I mean, I get why they had to include his relationship with her and it's pretty clear that this may have been the only type of romantic relationship he was able to have (it reads like the most significant time they spent in each other's company was for 2 weeks in the fall of '94), but the way the author's have positioned it seems grossly out of touch with what's going on today given the contempt people have for men in positions of power that have and continue to take advantage of vulnerable teens. As a fan, this is the side of Richey I've always found very difficult to reconcile with.
Well, I know he did talk about groupies and could be dismissive, bordering on sexist may as well say and definitely sexist and wrong with regards to seeking out a prostitute like a Western arrogant tourist idiot in Thailand but that said as far as I'm aware there was never any suggestion that he was interested in young girls beyond some malicious shit stirring with absolute no foundation. I hear what you're saying about Jo. Even 19 is young to 27.....not wrong of course not but quite a gap at that age. That said it didn't seem unequal if that makes sense, he seems to have found someone he could talk to on an equal level, she didn't sound naive and I'm not entirely sure she was a big fan of the band? That was a rumour too though so could be rubbish but what I mean is she wasn't necessarily easily swayed by his status, wasn't a besotted fan (just swayed by his Bambi eyes?)
I'm not even sure the attention boosted his ego. I know I said he was vain but you can be obsessed with appearance whilst impervious to flattery. It can be hard though I understand to distinguish between vulnerabilty and attention seeking. Are they a user or being used. It's possibly not always black and white but he was vulnerable that seems self evident. I find it upsetting that he'd use the knives given to him by a fan to cut himself, that anyone would do that to him and that he'd use them, all self esteem long gone
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  #739  
Old 22-03-2019, 10:34
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I've finished reading the book (no, I didn't buy it). If anyone wants to read it, send me a PM and I'll gladly loan it out.
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  #740  
Old 22-03-2019, 13:48
Glass Angel Glass Angel is offline
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I've finished reading the book (no, I didn't buy it). If anyone wants to read it, send me a PM and I'll gladly loan it out.
Ditto (not read it yet, but happy to lend once I have!)
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  #741  
Old 27-03-2019, 03:53
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vaiden vaiden is offline
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Hmmm. Just finished the book
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  #742  
Old 27-03-2019, 10:09
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Hmmm. Just finished the book

That's how I felt.
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  #743  
Old 27-03-2019, 20:46
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4our5ive6ix 4our5ive6ix is offline
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Even already knowing most of what the book is telling us about the end of 94' start of '95, it is still very difficult reading all of the details without getting emotional. Not really into the chapter on their interpretation of the lyrics, some of it definitely seems to be reaching. Plus they analyze, "So damn easy to cave in / Man kills everything"...wasn't that one of Nicky's contributions to the song? Lol
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  #744  
Old 28-03-2019, 11:36
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Not read the book but there is a bit of sarcasm in my earlier posts.
Are their any winners in the book? Is it stuff nobody didn't need to know? A curate's egg or more harmful? Has it shattered any opinions of the band? I know, get it and read it for myself, but it just isn't that demanding of my interest. So there's my answer!
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  #745  
Old 28-03-2019, 20:20
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I have a copy. Found it when I wasn't looking so. I've reached Generation Terrorists.

It's not particularly well written. I'm getting a sense of his character but I'm not sure it's the one I feel I'm 'intended' to get and it's that authorial nudging throughout that's grating I did find the family history around WWI interesting and something else I found interesting was mention of his dad being in the Red Berets where part of the training involved just standing and taking punches without reacting for 60 seconds. They don't make the link but it brought to my mind Richey's almost obsession with being non-violent, or rather passive in the face of aggression
There's little about his relationship with his parents, his mum is barely mentioned which is unusual when a large part of the book is about him growing up and what formed the man I guess
So far the band as childhood friends are dismissed, there's a snideness in tone at their mention. Not at every mention once the band get together but the book does want to leave you with the impression that they were acquintances at best until he joined the band rather than the friends of mythology so to speak which seems childish,. In truth there are a few times I've felt I'm reading about school playground politics score settling (Richey was a shy kid but open to people and friendly they want you to know....Nicky and James why they were just aloof. Ha. You have to remind yourself you're not reading a 14 year old's fanzine)
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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more," - Byron

'I must go down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.' (from Sea Fever - John Masefield)


"Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all" - Emily Dickinson
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  #746  
Old 29-03-2019, 00:42
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handbag handbag is offline
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Everything Raven wrote is spot on.

Richey's friendship with the band is massively played down. The whole book is heavily biased to put across the image that Richey was the desperately lonely genius poet 24/7.

It's obvious Rachel's problem with the band is that they took advantage of the loss of Richey by selling out and making lots of dollar. She doesn't think they did enough to find him (what could they do?).

Things get petty about the Bugs Bunny folder, and even Jo seems to have been having a poke at the band:

‘It was odd that the band never responded to a letter which Jo sent them about the poem she had written called “Edit the Sky”, which formed part of the song, “The Girl who Wanted to be God”.’

So there's a dig implying something or other. Did she want credits for the lines? It's so petty.

The book's a waste of space really. Very contrived. Very dull reading, too.

Sorry to say this but I bet all the 10s of British Pounds* in my bank that this book's not going to further any investigation even a millimeter. The "new clues" and theories are ridiculous. I understand Rachel's suffered/continues to suffer, but this book really wasn't a good idea.






*All eight of them.



I'm editing this over 12 hours later because I read it back and noticed I fucked up (that'll learn me to not post when overtired). This bit:
Quote me - "It's obvious Rachel's problem with the band is that they took advantage of the loss of Richey by selling out and making lots of dollar".
I meant to say that's SHR's problem. With Rachel I feel that she's mainly hurt that the rest of the band went on with their life and became successful when it was her brother's hard work that got the band noticed in the first place. I had issues with the band carrying on at the time and I've only ever seen them Richey-less once. No hard feelings against the band though, they'd just become less appealing musically and creatively to me. Becoming wealthy doesn't make them champagne socialists (although I had issues with the Castro thing). Anyway, rambling...just wanted to clear that up.

Armchair psychology - deep down Rachel thinks if Richey hadn't been in a band he'd still be here. Maybe she blames the band for what ultimately happened? Whether Richey's illness was reactive or clinical, it began before the band. It makes me wonder how Rachel would feel if she'd spent as much time with Richey as the band did. It was a bad situation for Richey and the band. How many days did she spend in his company? Even Jo struggled being with him for a weekend.

If SHR wants us to think James, Nick and Sean were somehow responsible for Richey's decline/disappearance, it didn't work. I also believe there was something special between the band members friendship wise and that's something not acknowledged in the book.

Sorry for the words...the book's left me frustrated/confused.

Last edited by handbag; 29-03-2019 at 18:49.
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  #747  
Old 30-03-2019, 08:48
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vaiden vaiden is offline
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I agree with the above about the interpretation of the songs as well as the armchair psychoanalysis. He does not read autism spectrum to me at all. I thought they were really reaching! But everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't have his case notes from the Priory.

Richey is such a paradox or dichotomy to me. I'm never really sure When he is lying or exaggerating or not. This is why I don't take things like the prostitute in Thailand as Richey cannon. It could very well be true but it also fits so well with his agenda and the whole asexual thing.For example the girlfriend Claire he wrote to. This has never been mentioned. Instead he.says he has never had a relationship..But that does not fit in with the image he wanted to portray. Truth or not I suppose doesn't matter as this doesn't change his lyrics, articulation and intelligence. They brush over the groupies and the CoR which I find baffling but thankfully leave out the I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that Richey did this rumors. I have read a few things I was hoping would be addressed but were not so I was disappointed but these things could have been left out for legal reasons. Do we know why the book was delayed?
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  #748  
Old 30-03-2019, 21:57
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vaiden vaiden is offline
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Who threatened legal action that resulted in the delay of releasing the book or was it something else?
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  #749  
Old 30-03-2019, 22:57
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4our5ive6ix 4our5ive6ix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handbag View Post
Did she want credits for the lines? It's so petty.
Maybe not given credit, but they could have at least asked her permission. Pete Doherty was sued and ended up settling, paying a poet ten grand for using a couple of lines from one of his poems without asking permission or giving credit. So if they did in fact end up using lines from her poem then I don't really see the pettiness here, I would be kinda pissed too.
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Last edited by 4our5ive6ix; 31-03-2019 at 06:26. Reason: Typo
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  #750  
Old 31-03-2019, 02:01
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I read it as the band didn't know she'd somehow contributed to the lines and the book doesn't make it clear how recently she'd written.

I agree that I'd be pissed off too if they knew that I'd written a poem and Richey used it in the lyrics but didn't even get a Thank You in the liner notes. I don't think they knew though.

I can't say why they didn't write back and I'd like to think they'd acknowledge her letter if they'd read it. Perhaps the letter didn't reach them if it was sent to management or via someone else.
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