scientology/tom cruise

[*lisa simpson*]

what do you think about scientology? one thing i always wonder is why it's called that - does anyone know?

there's been a story this week about tom cruise and his scientology ideas (again) which goes like this: katie holmes had always vowed to remain a virgin until marriage. tom then told her that he wished to sleep with her to "show his love" and somehow test hers. to me this is glorified coercion. is it any better than the young man who says to his girlfriend who is scared or anxious about the first time "you'd do it if you loved me!"? apparently the thing in scientology is that women must not shout or scream but remain silent throughout birth - in case they traumatise the baby. hmmm...

there's a scientology place near my college, they have a thing where outside their shopfront (and it's definitely a shop rather than anything even remotely spiritual), they have a big advert going "FREE STRESS TEST!!!" and they invite you to come in for this test, and presumably they find that everyone is pretty stressed (this is central london, it goes without saying!), and hey presto, they have the miracle cure which involves a chat, a conversion and a large *ahem* "donation".

most of me finds this quite repellent, but every time i walk past (6 times a week, minimum, to and from lectures at uni), a little part of me would *love* to sit down and say "ok, give me the stress test" and then proceed to explain i'm bipolar and so on and ask them how they can justify not believing in mental health issues or psychiatry. i'm pretty sure i could verbally out do them - i'm pretty good at stating my case in a debate - in my imagination it wouldn't be an argument, i'd not let my anger get the better of me and would just quietly and firmly wreck all their stupid ideas. well, in theory, anyway - more likely i'd get really angry and yell at them.

but i'm very very tempted....

[Perdita]

I agree about the coercion, but women are pressured into sex they don't fancy doing all the time so I don't think there's much specific about scientology to blame there...

scientology is one of those things that makes me make very dark noises and I react badly to, but actually I know very little about it. All the snippets make it seem like shit though.

[*lisa simpson*]

yeah, same here. i'd like to know more but i worry it'd make me angry!

as for the co-ercion, what bothers me is that this girl, katie holmes, who is clearly pretty strong in her self, or has been - her last boyfriend was for 5 years or something and apparently she left that relationship a virgin, she's usually fairly forthright in interviews and stuff, has just allowed her feelings and opinions to be steamrollered like that.

it seems cruise is trying to convert her, but does he ever stop to think about her?

the other real issue i have is that the press have all reported this as something of a joke. so, a man seemingly not giving two shits about his girlfriend's morals, ideals, feelings and co-ercing her into giving them up is a lighthearted joke? and it's a bloke who has a lot of appeal worldwide - how can this be a good thing?

[mrsmanics]

I'm with you on this one. There are some major dark spots on the whole scientology issue, although I'll admit that I don't know much about it.

I really don't like the idea of Tom Cruise coercing Katie Holmes into sex when she'd been so adament that she was going to remain a virgin until her wedding night. The whole "silence throughout the labour" thing is really quite disturbing, too.

[50ft Queenie]

Does anyone know what Scientology actually is?

Isn't it something to do with aliens?

[unwashed and somewhat slightly dazed]

http://www.xenu.net

[Nicola17]

what do you think about scientology? one thing i always wonder is why it's called that - does anyone know?

I've always assumed the name is to make it sound less religious: 'scientology' suggests that what they preach is based on evidence and scientific testing, rather than on faith alone.

I know very little about the religion, but what I've heard disturbs me.

[raven]

what do you think about scientology? one thing i always wonder is why it's called that - does anyone know?

I think it means science of the mind. It was originally called dianetics and claimed to be able to help people overcome all forms of illness and became a bit of a craze in 50s America and made Hubbard lotsa cash, worried it would prove a passing craze he decided to call it scientology, make it more sciencey sounding when all the science that went into it was from his science fiction. Hoping to evade the medical and tax authorities he decided it was actually a church of scientology and followers needed to travel 'up the bridge' ... a very long bridge with lots of opportunities to part with cash on the way.
Apparently scientologists think we all have an immortal soul called a thetan, thetans created the universe zillions of years back and created the human form and other forms to carry themselves round in. Thetans have to struggle against their engrams or traumas including traumas from past inter galactic wars and the like and against implants which try to muddle our thinking and cause us illness and madness. Scientology will purge the engrams and rid us of our implants (Jordan will never be persuaded to join).
The initial personality test and stuff like that stress test is to draw you on to the bridge and obviously the chance to sit and talk through problems can be appealing, all cults play on that don't they, it's why they're always near uni campuses isn't it, young people in a new city, away from home for the first time, away from friends etc etc

[knives out]

Katie Holmes totally wasn't a virgin, come on.

[the fun blame monster]

Scientologists are bonkers. Literally bonkers and they believe some stuff which is just stupid and some stuff which is actually dangerous (eg. there's no such thing as any kind of mental illness - Tom Cruise went on TV recently saying there was no such thing as post-natal depression, for example).

They're fucking nutcases.

[Lady_Marmalade]

what do you think about scientology? one thing i always wonder is why it's called that - does anyone know?

there's been a story this week about tom cruise and his scientology ideas (again) which goes like this: katie holmes had always vowed to remain a virgin until marriage. tom then told her that he wished to sleep with her to "show his love" and somehow test hers. to me this is glorified coercion. is it any better than the young man who says to his girlfriend who is scared or anxious about the first time "you'd do it if you loved me!"? apparently the thing in scientology is that women must not shout or scream but remain silent throughout birth - in case they traumatise the baby. hmmm...

there's a scientology place near my college, they have a thing where outside their shopfront (and it's definitely a shop rather than anything even remotely spiritual), they have a big advert going "FREE STRESS TEST!!!" and they invite you to come in for this test, and presumably they find that everyone is pretty stressed (this is central london, it goes without saying!), and hey presto, they have the miracle cure which involves a chat, a conversion and a large *ahem* "donation".

most of me finds this quite repellent, but every time i walk past (6 times a week, minimum, to and from lectures at uni), a little part of me would *love* to sit down and say "ok, give me the stress test" and then proceed to explain i'm bipolar and so on and ask them how they can justify not believing in mental health issues or psychiatry. i'm pretty sure i could verbally out do them - i'm pretty good at stating my case in a debate - in my imagination it wouldn't be an argument, i'd not let my anger get the better of me and would just quietly and firmly wreck all their stupid ideas. well, in theory, anyway - more likely i'd get really angry and yell at them.

but i'm very very tempted....

If you go, research first and be careful! My mate was going to Brighton Uni and got stopped by a Scientologist on the street who asked her to go back to their shop for a cuppa and a chat. Being interested and skeptical, she went back to the Scientology shop woth him and was then taken into the back, (the shop part is actually a facade for the back rooms) where a group of sceintologists encircled her and started talking to her in quite in intimidating manner about how great scientology really is. "Pack of wolves" is the term she used. After that she researched about scientology, and its all such a load of BS. I mean the thing was founded by a guy who wrote novels about aliens ffs! Check this site out www.scientology-lies.com
By the way, the only reason they decided to call themselves a religion is because you get a massive tax break in the US if you're a religious organisation.

[*lisa simpson*]

jesus, poor girl! i did get asked, as it happens and i disappointed myself by saying "no thanks, i don't believe in your crap" and walking off.

oh well.

[*lisa simpson*]

applause for scarlett please!!!


According to RadarMagazine.com, before Cruise started dating Katie Holmes, he invited actress Scarlett Johansson to a Scientology center where he showed her literature about the church. "After two hours of proselytizing," according to the website, "Cruise opened a door to reveal a second room full of upper-level Scientologists who had been waiting to dine with the pair, at which point the cool-headed ingénue politely excused herself."

[knives out]

Eek. That probably isn't true, but if it is, well done.

That guy is a fucking nutcase. There is obviously a huge amount of pressure on Katie Holmes. She'd hardly been going out with him now shes got a whole new 'religion' and is having his kid. It's definitely not right. She'll regret this or she's insane.

[ailsa]

It was {reportedly} started as a bet, for fuck's sake. Doesn't that just say it all?

[mrsmanics]

You know, I didn't know until I read this thread that scientologists refute the idea of the existence of mental illnesses. Well, coming from a load of nutcases, that's fairly rich. :rolleyes:

[sean of the dead]

You know, I didn't know until I read this thread that scientologists refute the idea of the existence of mental illnesses. Well, coming from a load of nutcases, that's fairly rich. :rolleyes:

They also claim that they can "cure" homosexuality.

[knives out]

They also claim that they can "cure" homosexuality.

Obviously that didn't work for Tom CRuise.

[*lisa simpson*]

You know, I didn't know until I read this thread that scientologists refute the idea of the existence of mental illnesses. Well, coming from a load of nutcases, that's fairly rich. :rolleyes:

apparently the mentally ill are merely "suppressed persons" or something :rolleyes:

isn't it weird though, we can all see its bonkers, but it has a pretty big following and it seems to be out for world domination or something, which is sort of scary.

[sean of the dead]

Obviously that didn't work for Tom CRuise.

Heh,no.Though rumour has it that that was the main reason he (and John Travolta)joined Scientology.

[pennyroyalty]

i don't know guys... maybe Cruise knows something we don't. he is, after all, ridiculously rich, famous and attractive. maybe we could be too.

[mrsmanics]

apparently the mentally ill are merely "suppressed persons" or something :rolleyes:

isn't it weird though, we can all see its bonkers, but it has a pretty big following and it seems to be out for world domination or something, which is sort of scary.

It *is* scary. It's like one of those cults that entices young students, only it seems to be almost more acceptable, because: a) It's officially a "religion" and b) various celebrities have joined.

Suppressed persons, my arse. I've had depression and I certainly wasn't suppressed. As for "curing" homosexuality, that's just offensive to gay people! :surprise:

[*lisa simpson*]

he is, after all, ridiculously rich, famous and attractive.

tom cruise???? attractive?????????????????????????????????????

blimey :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[pennyroyalty]

tom cruise???? attractive?????????????????????????????????????

blimey :eek::eek::eek::eek:
well, i know i would.

[Vorsprung]

Can't believe nobody has posted this gem yet...

http://www.tomcruiseisnuts.com/images/with_star.jpg

Oh, if only he had stayed quiet, all those other poor Scientologists could be living in peace. :lol:

[sean of the dead]

This is pretty good too:
http://galleryoftheabsurd.typepad.com/14/2005/10/celebrity_relig.html

[Vorsprung]

Sean, I think Madonna's f*ucked-upness deserves a thread of its own!

[Delta of Venus]

isn't it weird though, we can all see its bonkers, but it has a pretty big following and it seems to be out for world domination or something, which is sort of scary.

Just like good old fashioned Christianity then... ;)

[Vorsprung]

"Thank god we came to our senses and worship a carpenter that lived two thousand years ago." - Bart Simpson

[borntoend]

Just like good old fashioned Christianity then... ;)

Thankfully we advocate all that 'love others' business, and some of that 'being rich is not really a great idea, why not give your money to starving children' stuff ;)

Thank you, come again

Your friendly local evangelical* Christian











*It doesn't mean what you think it means. Go and sit in the corner.

[Delta of Venus]

Thankfully we advocate all that 'love others' business

Hmmm, unless of course, you happen to be gay, in which case you shall 'surely be put to death'.

and some of that 'being rich is not really a great idea, why not give your money to starving children' stuff ;)

Or, as is more often advocated, why not give all your money to the church?


DISCLAIMER: I realise there are a few Christians out there who follow the original meaning of the 'love others' thingy etc. Just that the rest are evil totalitarians. :p

[Lady_Marmalade]

Hmmm, unless of course, you happen to be gay, in which case you shall 'surely be put to death'.



Or, as is more often advocated, why not give all your money to the church?


DISCLAIMER: I realise there are a few Christians out there who follow the original meaning of the 'love others' thingy etc. Just that the rest are evil totalitarians. :p


You been reading the Koran ?

[borntoend]

You been reading the Koran ?

Looks like it.

And if you actually bothered to get to know the majority of Christians you might find that your prejudices are unfounded... I've never, ever come across a genuine church that asked its members to give up all their money, and most churches spend so much of their budget on charitable work and causes that they barely scrape by; I know mine does. Equally, there are few or no remaining mainstream denominations that have not issued official statements apologising for previous treatment of homosexuals by churches and advocating exactly what's been in the Bible all along- love and compassion for all.

Do you regard the people who blew up commuters on the London Underground as being 'real' Muslims? I doubt it. So let's please stop assuming that there are different rules for Christians. Discrimination ain't fun kids.

[bornagirl76]

Equally, there are few or no remaining mainstream denominations that have not issued official statements apologising for previous treatment of homosexuals by churches and advocating exactly what's been in the Bible all along- love and compassion for all.

Umm...the Catholic Church? The biggest Christian denomination in the world? Their "love and compassion" for homosexuals comes with a big, bad caveat.

[Delta of Venus]

Equally, there are few or no remaining mainstream denominations that have not issued official statements apologising for previous treatment of homosexuals by churches and advocating exactly what's been in the Bible all along- love and compassion for all.
Discrimination ain't fun kids.

Where was the discrimination in my post? I'm not talking about individual Christians, but the undeniable fact that not only are the majority of major Christian denominations still prejudiced towards homosexuals and regard the sexual act as being a sin, but that the Christian faith is largely responsible for the widespread societal homophobia that is only now starting to, albeit very slowly, dissipate.

Yes there are many Christians who advocate love and compassion for all, and non-Christians who practice philanthropy in their own name, but there is a lot in the Bible that doesn't preach love and compassion for all and is used by right-wing bigots to justify their prejudices.

You been reading the Koran ?

Nope, Leviticus 20:13 in the good old bible reads:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

[borntoend]

Three cheers for all those good people, Christian or otherwise, who don't understand the concept of the new covenant ;) the Old Testament laws do not apply to Christians, we are under the Law of Christ, of God's grace rather than God's judgement. Silly people picking Bible verses out of both their context in the text, and their context in a wider theology, should not be listened to- do you believe people like Bin Laden when they say the Qu'ran tells all Muslims to blow people up?

And I would dispute the claim that to believe something is sinful is to be prejudiced against it. Christians believe that lying, cheating, stealing, bullying, hatred and many other delightful things are sinful, yet my brothers and sisters in faith accept me and love me and support me.